humankind - Mughals Discusion Thread

[conorbebe]

Hmm, a bit worried the game is going to be a bit over-saturated with emblematic elephant units. First Carthage, then the Mauryans, then the Khmer, now the Mughals, and it seems Siam will also have one in the Late Modern era.

Personally, I would have gone for the camel-mounted "zamburak", as not only would it have been more distinct (there has only been one other camel unit revealed so far), but these weapons were actually fired when mounted, whilst this was apparently not the case with artillery-carrying elephants.

 

[Narcisse]

You can give Zamburak to Safavids/Qajars/Afsharids/Iraninans/Afghan/... It's cool to have the Mughal armored elephant, it's really emblematic of them. There is not so much occasions to have elephants as emblematic unit, so I suppose than these pick on these eras are well calculated.

 

[Catoninetales_Amplitude]

While elephants were indeed used to carry artillery pieces like the Gajnal and Hathnal (Gaja and Hathi are both words for elephants in many Indian languages) and their crew, they were dismounted before being fired.

The Mughul armies were known for their use of gunpowder, but gajnal simply means 'elephant gun' - NOT 'elephant artillery'.

And this is why the Gajnal in game is in fact NOT an artillery unit. They function more like a slightly stronger, more mobile musketeer, so this is probably more of a musket just a bit too big for a man to carry than an actual artillery gun. Admittedly, some liberties may have been taken with the size and design of the gun, perhaps to make it more easily recognizable at a glance (or perhaps just to make it more impressive).
I'm afraid actual "elephant artillery" that unloads a large cannon before firing would simply not have been possible due to production constraints, as that would be an entirely new set of animations and choreography.
EDIT: After seeing this image of a howdah-mounted swivel-gun that our historian sent me (and funnily, somebody posted on our Discord at the same time), I think the size of the gun isn't even that exaggerated:

I really want to know if the Red Fort is somewhere.

As far as I know, the city center is based heavily on the Red fort, yes.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Hmm, a bit worried the game is going to be a bit over-saturated with emblematic elephant units. First Carthage, then the Mauryans, then the Khmer, now the Mughals, and it seems Siam will also have one in the Late Modern era.

No, no, no, no - Basic Rule of Game Design: You Can't Have Too Many Elephants!

And this is why the Gajnal in game is in fact NOT an artillery unit. They function more like a slightly stronger, more mobile musketeer, so this is probably more of a musket just a bit too big for a man to carry than an actual artillery gun. Admittedly, some liberties may have been taken with the size and design of the gun, perhaps to make it more easily recognizable at a glance (or perhaps just to make it more impressive).
I'm afraid actual "elephant artillery" that unloads a large cannon before firing would simply not have been possible due to production constraints, as that would be an entirely new set of animations and choreography.
EDIT: After seeing this image of a howdah-mounted swivel-gun that our historian sent me (and funnily, somebody posted on our Discord at the same time), I think the size of the gun isn't even that exaggerated:

As far as I know, the city center is based heavily on the Red fort, yes.

Pass along to your historian and artists, that the pictured gun is almost identical to the most common 'swivel guns' that were the first 'artillery' pieces mounted on Caravels and Carracks in Europe in the 15th and early 16th centuries. For example, Henry VII of England's Trinity Sovereign, a carrack built in 1489 CE and one of the first ships built in England as a warship from the keel up, carried 32 'big guns' firing stone shot and 110 'swivel guns' as anti-personnel weapons. The famous Mary Rose, launched in 1511, carried only about 9 heavy cannon, and up to 73 'swivel guns'.

 

[pineappledan]

With the Mughals in, there goes my hope for a Gurkani culture, since they’re pretty much the same thing, only emphasizing their pre- and post- Indian empires.

oh well!

 

[notNamed]

Pass along to your historian and artists, that the pictured gun is almost identical to the most common 'swivel guns' that were the first 'artillery' pieces mounted on Caravels and Carracks in Europe in the 15th and early 16th centuries. For example, Henry VII of England's Trinity Sovereign, a carrack built in 1489 CE and one of the first ships built in England as a warship from the keel up, carried 32 'big guns' firing stone shot and 110 'swivel guns' as anti-personnel weapons. The famous Mary Rose, launched in 1511, carried only about 9 heavy cannon, and up to 73 'swivel guns'.

I'd also suggest asking Sukritact about it, since the piece in question comes from a Thai museum. In turn, plenty of discussions online seemingly doubting the usage of that one in particular, pointing out a much more realistic option would have been a gun like this (thus much closer to the oversized musket comparison), which was supposedly the real workhorse gun of the times. But yeah, Google TL has its limits so definitely inquiring Sukritact about this might not be a bad idea.

 

[Krajzen]

You know guys, I have an excercise for ya

Look at this culture card's picture
Gaze upon its magnificence
And then look at Frankish and English images

Do you think it is too late to smile and nod at Amplitude to change pictures for these cultures? Like it happened to several civ6 cartoonish leaders before release...

 

[FinalDoomsday]

You know guys, I have an excercise for ya

Look at this culture card's picture
Gaze upon its magnificence
And then look at Frankish and English images

Do you think it is too late to smile and nod at Amplitude to change pictures for these cultures? Like it happened to several civ6 cartoonish leaders before release...

Every time a new magnificent culture card comes up part of me grows bitter as I inevitably think of the English "two guys talking next to some apples" card

I might start a thread on G2G to see if it gets some attention there.