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Humankind - Ottomans discussion thread
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https://twitter.com/humankindgame/status/1303363040855941122?s=09
Emblematic Unit: Janissaries
Emblematic Quarter: Sultan Camii
Affinity: Expansionist
Emblematic Unit: Janissaries
Emblematic Quarter: Sultan Camii
Affinity: Expansionist
ferretbacon
Obsessor
I love the artwork (the early modern era felt especially strong in this regard; not a bad one in the bunch). Very pleased the Ottomans are represented in this era in the base game. Wouldn't have felt complete otherwise. I'm not familiar with the emblematic quarter, but a little disappointed that it's another religious building, which seems overly represented so far. Lots of mosques and cathedrals. They're pretty and architecturally grand, but don't always feel thematically ideal for every culture.
Narcisse
Prince
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I understand it seems redundant to have mosque for Islamic cultures, but I'm sure that people from these culture heritage are happy to see high architecturale achievements of their culture, instead of having just gimmicks (about being good merchant for exemple) and always give to european prestigious buildings. IMO Spainish cities will look really neat and glorious with these cathedrals.
Sinan, it's like : really important in architecture, and this is one of the most important architect of this era. These mosques were innovative, because he learned from byzantine architecture highly advanced techniques and improved these knowledges (obviously it's later).
Hammam looks cool enough for me, but I suppose than Public Bath can be a technology.
For Bedesten or Caravaneserail it can be the visuals of generic mercantile quarters.
Topkapi palace was spotted, probably as wonder instead of City Center. (but maybe CC anyway).
If it's the city center, we can imagine another wonder, as the gigantic New Bedesten of Gems (today Great Bazar) or something else
Sinan, it's like : really important in architecture, and this is one of the most important architect of this era. These mosques were innovative, because he learned from byzantine architecture highly advanced techniques and improved these knowledges (obviously it's later).
Hammam looks cool enough for me, but I suppose than Public Bath can be a technology.
For Bedesten or Caravaneserail it can be the visuals of generic mercantile quarters.
Topkapi palace was spotted, probably as wonder instead of City Center. (but maybe CC anyway).
If it's the city center, we can imagine another wonder, as the gigantic New Bedesten of Gems (today Great Bazar) or something else
Boris Gudenuf
Deity
While I don't dispute that the Sinan Mosque is Emblematic, the result is, by my count, 2 different Mosques in two Eras, plus the other Religious structures cluttering the landscape. Especially when the Ottomans have aperfectly good and typically Ottoman/Turkic structures in the Hamam or Bedesten it seems a bit like One Mosque Too Many to me.
On the other hand, the Details are what's important: if the Ottoman Mosque provides, say, some kind of Loyalty mechanic to tie the Ottoman realm together, it would tie in neatly with Expansionist affiliation just as well as a similar mechanic tied to the Bedesten or Hamam would.
And, of course, they would always allow you to convert Mosques to Museums later and then back again, depending on whether you needed religious/loyalty pressure or culture . . .
On the other hand, the Details are what's important: if the Ottoman Mosque provides, say, some kind of Loyalty mechanic to tie the Ottoman realm together, it would tie in neatly with Expansionist affiliation just as well as a similar mechanic tied to the Bedesten or Hamam would.
And, of course, they would always allow you to convert Mosques to Museums later and then back again, depending on whether you needed religious/loyalty pressure or culture . . .
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You have to remember the thing about Emblematic religious structures. For cultures with highly organized religion, these devout and pious people dedicated their wealth and the highest standards of construction, artifice and artistry they could to these edifices. It represented their faith in their deities to eyes both mortal and immortal. They chose to dedicate the best thing they could hope to achieve to religion. Many cultures had organized religion, so as a result, there are many Emblematic religious structures.
SuddenAppearance
Chieftain
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So, bedesten seem to be very requested.
https://i.imgur.com/rDWFRdH.jpeg
HUMANKIND Feature Focus: Reimagining Terrain - 2:55
Isn't this a covered market? Probably, like the precolombian ballcourt, as eyecandy, but it's enough.
https://i.imgur.com/rDWFRdH.jpeg
HUMANKIND Feature Focus: Reimagining Terrain - 2:55
Isn't this a covered market? Probably, like the precolombian ballcourt, as eyecandy, but it's enough.
Narcisse
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Actually, for me the problem is not the Ottomans having a mosque, but the Mughals having one haha
It's just the perfect building for them. Yes bedesten is not bad because it's an unique architecture ottoman form of the bazaar, but no really emblematic anyway, just widespread in Ottoman cities. Like a lot of everyday life buildings.
Hamman could be a really decent choice, but I go into my architecture books, there is not really remarkable ones as their mosque. So they will need to make a hard interpretation to look cool in the game. + It could be a really generic tech or building for everyone (medieval europeans, romans, japanese, etc ... had some iconic public baths). Again, remember the demanded english hamlet which is finally a really cool-looking generic quarter.
Anyway, I think than Turkish will be happy by this representation, looks way better and prestigious than the usual representations in videogames.
I know, a lot of cultures had mosque too, but none other culture had Sinan. And it's a cool reference to the multi-ethnic empire, Sinan supposed to be a christian taking as janissary when child.
SOOO, the Amplitude job here seems perfect for me. Just seems redundant because previous cultures choices (Mughals)
It's Topkapi Palace
It's just the perfect building for them. Yes bedesten is not bad because it's an unique architecture ottoman form of the bazaar, but no really emblematic anyway, just widespread in Ottoman cities. Like a lot of everyday life buildings.
Hamman could be a really decent choice, but I go into my architecture books, there is not really remarkable ones as their mosque. So they will need to make a hard interpretation to look cool in the game. + It could be a really generic tech or building for everyone (medieval europeans, romans, japanese, etc ... had some iconic public baths). Again, remember the demanded english hamlet which is finally a really cool-looking generic quarter.
Anyway, I think than Turkish will be happy by this representation, looks way better and prestigious than the usual representations in videogames.
I know, a lot of cultures had mosque too, but none other culture had Sinan. And it's a cool reference to the multi-ethnic empire, Sinan supposed to be a christian taking as janissary when child.
SOOO, the Amplitude job here seems perfect for me. Just seems redundant because previous cultures choices (Mughals)
It's Topkapi Palace
SuddenAppearance
Chieftain
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Thanks for the info, didn't know Topkapi and that architecture is so heterogeneous that seemed to me like some kind of city center graphic like the ones in civ.
Guandao
Rajah of Minyue, Hlai and Langkasuka
As expected, Expansionist Ottomans with Janissaries. I'm getting tired of Amplitude not sticking to the Alphabetical order. 
Early Modern era is complete and Industrial is next.
Early Modern era is complete and Industrial is next.
FinalDoomsday
Prince
I like all the religious emblematics its nice to know Ill be able to build cathedrals as Spain or Mosques as Ottomans because those iconic buildings will not be tied up in the religious system.
mitsho
Deity
The question for me is whether these religious emblematic quarters will get religious effects or not. I can see it, but those effects might get cluttered. But this seems to be the last of them, there will not be that many in the Industrial and Modern era. Right? Right? 
From the Culture Card, the Ottomans kinda need their specific trait to be about cannons and bombardments, no? Otherwise, the card would seem like a lie. So I'm guessing them to be the warlike expansionist you want them to be, much more so than their description here would make you believe. It's just, not much space is left with a religious or stability focused emblematic quarter to introduce another aspect.
Or Janissaries could only be made in cities that belonged to someone else initially. Meaning if you had not conquered anyone the era before, you would not want to choose them in the early modern era and rather transcend. I'd like that, that would fit really well historically AND be interesting gameplay.
Twenty more weeks to go, five months, if they keep releasing one culture a week. ;-)
From the Culture Card, the Ottomans kinda need their specific trait to be about cannons and bombardments, no? Otherwise, the card would seem like a lie. So I'm guessing them to be the warlike expansionist you want them to be, much more so than their description here would make you believe. It's just, not much space is left with a religious or stability focused emblematic quarter to introduce another aspect.
Or Janissaries could only be made in cities that belonged to someone else initially. Meaning if you had not conquered anyone the era before, you would not want to choose them in the early modern era and rather transcend. I'd like that, that would fit really well historically AND be interesting gameplay.
Twenty more weeks to go, five months, if they keep releasing one culture a week. ;-)
Boris Gudenuf
Deity
Janissaries were good siege engineers, so maybe a bonus of siege
Or Ottomans starts sieges with two ready siege engines (OpenDev Norse trait
When it comes to Ottoman Sieges, remember that the infamous Ottoman Bombard so prominent in the fall of Constantinople was built and served by a Hungarian engineer, not Ottoman. On the other hand, as mentioned, the Janissaries themselves provided a good corps of siege engineers skilled in mining and more traditional city assaults, so a bonus that applies to siege assaults rather than a specific siege unit would be more appropriate.
Narcisse
Prince
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yes I know the story of Orban, he died by his own invention in the siege (karma). But hey, even if it's not their invention, it was the dominant advantage of Ottomans in most of their wars. And Humankind already making a lot of references of cultural contributions instead of presenting monolithic culture, it's not so silly.
more seriously, I agree with you, siege bonus on Janissaries seems more legit, and the legacy trait about siege engine could be already be present earlier in the game (medieval era ?) for someone.
more seriously, I agree with you, siege bonus on Janissaries seems more legit, and the legacy trait about siege engine could be already be present earlier in the game (medieval era ?) for someone.
I have mixed feelings about this as most religious buildings in some way function as a representative of particular theological concepts (e.g., Christian cathedrals being in the form of a cross or Islamic mosques being oriented to point towards the Kaaba). At least the Sinan mosque is more distinctly Ottoman than the Gothic cathedral is Spanish...
How I rationalize the Gothic Cathedral is their emphasis on selecting emblematics that are not only recognizable, but ALSO those that show how cultures have merged over-time. So while it may not be "distinctly" Spanish, it makes sense with regard to how they want to build their game (and the culture card even points this out showing where all of the influences on the Cathedrals came from).
Hence, why the Varangian Guard made sense when I asked why it was used instead of a Cataphract for Byzantines. Janissary, though decidedly uniquely Ottoman, is ALSO a great choice regarding Humankind's cultural meshing because the Janissary corps was (as you know) originally Greek/Christian slaves converted and fighting for their Turkish rulers. Things and little historical details like that help show why a particular emblematic makes sense for a given culture, even if it is not a 100% "original" and unique invention for that particular culture.
Just my two cents
EDIT: added two words for clarification
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