I am disappointed !!!

[Nicheal]

Hello Dudes and Dudes, and Dudes !

I know that CIV 2 is a small and freaky thing, old and ugly.
CIV 4 is a little bit better in graphics and other stuff... a little bit... but its too hard
for me to modd. I dont like to amateur-modd twenty thousand years to get a
sad-done, i want to amateur-modd CIV 2 ToT two month to get a well-done.

But thats not my point.

I joined this Forum May 2009, and disappointed Catfish, Kobayashi, McMonkey, and the
whole CIV 2 Community... hehe.
Now i will further do... hehehe.

The game CIV 2 is very old, but i can use it easily. Read a book, create a Scen out of it.
You can do anything between the CIV 2 limits, and i can create as amateur nice games.
Thats a dream, and i want to.

But what i saw in this community is sad and ugly !
There is no... force... to manage the goodies. Downloaded, for example, BeBros
Imperium Romanum V2.2, but it doesnt work at all ! It seems nice, but i dont have the
"Fantastic World CD" and the .exe doesnt load the Events and Rules.txt.
I could do my own easily, but it bores me to much.

My point, Dudes, is the following one:

We have many Scenarios in here and in Apolyton, and the most good-dones i find
through McMonkeys Signature, or through a hard hacked link for Fairlines Units in Apolyton.

The most Scenarios i downloaded were disgusting ! Every single amateur can oversend
his Scenarios in the Downloads Center and there they stand listed per date.
I want them listed by quality.
I give a xxx about the download rates ! CIV 2 is xxx old (the xxx are badmouths)
and its community is some freaks want to playing good-dones for joy and nothing else.

The most Scenarios i saw are nonperfect patchworks dont working at all cause they
have failures, but one guy oversent it ten years ago and now they are downloaded
ten thousand times.
They are downloaded cause they are listed ! Thats the point.
But if i download these bad listed sads, i wont download anything else !

You cant find the best ones, you download xxx and thats it with CIV 2 !

If this community is not forced enough to get the Scenarios perfect and well playable,
and well listed, in my mind this jungle will burn off.

And for sure, i am speaking about CIV 2 ToT, an old game, but it has community.
And this community must xxx xxx xxx force the quality.
There is no use for a list, in wich every single xxx xxx xxx Scenario is downloaded by
the last idiot on earth ! i am sorry, but i dont want to search for the playable ones.

I want to play them !!!

Not every visitor downloads every single xxx xxx xxx file ! He downloads the thing he
found to, and is disappointed that the last CIV 2 community wasnt able to force the
quality ontop of the xxx list !


Thanx for visiting this thread.​

 

[Magic_gorter]

Hello Nicheal,

I understand why you're disappointed. But the problem is which way we can rate those downloadable scenario's. There are not much players on CFC who play much scenario's and to rate a scenario only judged by a few players is not enough. I guess that this was the most important reason to chose that everybody can upload their scenario's ....even when they are of poor quality. Mayby there are more reasons but the community is to small right now to change things.

 

[Nicheal]

Thanx for answering !

For sure. Catfishs Downloads, for example, rate near 1 per day and Scenario.
That does not matter. There is one "user" per day downloading it.
Peanuts in a small Fanatics Community, i know, but...
It is not important to me, i will create my own Scenarios out of Catfishs Terrains
and Fairlines Units, and that will be enough goodies for me, but...

You say, out of the opinion of a few CIV Fanatics we cant create a quality list ?
I think you are wrong.
You say, out of the opinion of a few CIV Fanatics we cant create FOR a few CIV
Fanatics, and you are wrong. Yes we can ! The matter is, we wont, cause for that
work there is no need for, that you are saying.

But there is a need ! Why do you think there are only a few Fanatics playing these
Scenarios ? Cause they are not well-listed. If we list them for quality, no, if we list
them for "that worx at least"... thats the point. The work would be out of a few
Fanatics for a few Fanatics and would be necessary for a better offering.
The problem is, no one likes to do that. You say the Community is small, and i say,

yes, and lazy too. But notice, Dude, that Catfishs progress was in May and June,
my entry, the new CIV 2 Downloads Center... its time to collect and connect the
whole worx, i think. Then there might be a better download rate for CIV 2 Scenarios...

an example.
Vote... as Community, for the three best Scenarios of every Age, and create another
list in the CIV 2 Scenario folder called "Strikers best" or so...

That must not happen tomorrow ! but a good list makes sense, and some other
Creators would oversend their goodies too, and the list would getting complete one
by one. McMonkey for example. Are his Scenarios in the lists ?

They arent complete, and they are too wild and non-working... thats my opinion.

​

 

[Magic_gorter]

Nicheal,

I will think it over and might perhaps give it a try. If I have explained it to Thunderfall, the admins and other important moderators and they think it's something we (=me) can change I first will start a thread to find out if there are enough players who like the idea.

As you might have read the downloadnumbers are perhaps wrong.....in a thread of Jeelen in the civ2 section they mentioned strange behaviours of the numbers and doubt strongly if they are right

 

[Nicheal]

Ok.

Just one thing... i give these ideas and hints for choose, cause it was sad to me,
Imperium Romanum by BeBro, the legendary Version 2.2 ! did not work,
the McMonkeys Scenario "Aeterna Civitas II" is created PBEM... and "might work"
human versus AI...

my idea is not to say "only the best are listed" ! my idea is "all are listed as always"
and the bests are special listed... so that faults in Scenarios could one by one
being solved. Guys like Catfish are re-creating some Scenarios anyways.
In a special list these Guys could solve faults, so that Imperium Romanum or
Aeterna Civitas II are playable. These Scens are too good to being ignored,
but all the Scenarios could being re-created solving faults by community in special lists.

Whatever !



Hey ! A good call for the special list "The Strikers best for CIV 2 Test of Time" could be
"Bullet proof - trust in quality !"...

​

 

[Agent327]

Well, that's quite a grievance you have. First off, there are many good Civ2 scenarios and mods; if you don't know them the download number may give some indication. The "problem", as you say, is that anyone can upload his work. But isn't that the idea of a Civ community? I also agree that modding with Civ4 is quite a bit harder; the Civ4 worldbuilder does not compare to the Civ2 editor. Most importantly, quality is something one must judge for oneself; even with Civ4 a high number of downloads does not always guarantee a great scenario or mod - but quite often it does.

As regards certain mods/scenarios not working with certain Civ2 versions: there's not much that can be done about that - except a Civ2 conversion patch (which exists and is listed in the Download Database) and/or getting the right Civ2 version.

Finally, I once started out dabbling in Civ2 scenarios - inspired by some of the great artists (kobayashi and the like); currently I have a number of Civ4 scenarios listed, plus a mod. So, in short, it's not all frustration and despair.

 

[Nicheal]

Wow ! An unknown guy called "Jeelen", talks to me...

You have good talking, my dear ! Your name is known in the upper world called CIV 4.
First of all, yes, i could find all the great Scenarios, but its annoying to have to
search for.
Every single Scenario has its own greats, as i said it in another thread !!! and every
single work is part of the whole modding world of CIV, and has its worth to be !!!
The problem is, that many Scenarios have BIG faults, and that is sad to see.

I dont know wich CIV 2 Versions you mean. There is CIV 2 and CIV 2 Test of Time.
End of the story. Creating Scenarios out of the fundamental sources might work at all.
Thats no "Judging in quality" games just dont work ! And not every Freak downloads
one GB senseless files. I will move on dabbling in CIV 2 Scenarios.
You say CIV 4 is "a little bit more" work ? i say that is a complete different world.
As the complete Artwork has changed, the complete point of work has changed,
and you must work nearly as prof to get welldone results. I want to create my little
things and not to modd like hell earning no money for.
Started one year ago, inspired by Harlan Thompsons "Lord of the Ring" creating my
own little things, and...

And, i just dont like CIV 4. Bought the whole game and was bored to play it...
too much for too less, i thought (played ToT SciFi Scen 70x140 map quite busy
already and my "Alexander the Great" Version 1, the ultimate Ancient Wars so that
CIV 4 was better in graphics and and and, but not in totally crazy wars and hells)...

No, its not all frustration and dispair being Jeelen Malcovich...
Yes, there are many goods ! thats my point. But i call it "patchwork dones".
Dont you agree saying, welldone but failures in ?
I want to play a Scenario thinking "Wow thats a perfect part of the original game",
i dont want to play an annoying thing thinking "Wow the first ten rounds worked,
but now the first thousand failures made me sic"...

But what am i talking about ! You dont see what i can see ! the great flashlight
of good ideas even CIV 4 is not dreaming about !
My little good ideas and the poor and lonesome little CIV 2, we will have nice hours...
you have not played THAT Wars yet, great and famous Jeelen...

​

 

[Prof. Garfield]

What you want is for a large number of people to do a lot of work so that you can save yourself a little inconvenience. That is hardly efficient, but you personally don't bear that cost. Few, if any, of us have such large amounts of free time to devote to Civ 2 that we can play and rate scenarios that we might not otherwise play. Case in point is that there is so little participation in the Game of the Month.

If you want to play scenarios, get your hands on Multiplayer Gold Edition; that will let you play any scenario except those made for Test of Time. If you don't have Multiplayer Gold Edition, then there is little point in arguing that scenarios don't work, because you may not have the correct version.

If you want a quick test of how good a scenario is, check the screenshots to see if the terrain is standard Civ 2 terrain, or if it has been substantially edited; if it has, it is very likely that the creator has put plenty of work into the scenario and it is likely to be better for it; same goes for the city icons.

 

[Nicheal]

Hm. My point of view is another... the person creating a Scenario is the master of
desaster or not ?
Create a worthy Scenario and thats okay. Do you know what the word "o.k." means ?
Out of german language, means "ohne korrektur" or "without correcture".
I dont know if i have Gold Edition, you are right. Standard CIV 2, i think.
But thats not a problem, i dont play that stuff often.
I am not a fivty years Deity with love in Scenarios created out of 100 kb rebuilt
CIV 2 old stuff. My first and only love is Test of Time.

One question. Is there any difference between creating a ToT Scenario welldone
and insert here, or patchwork done ?
Yes. The welldone is welldone, and the patchwork not. The time to work on is nearly
the same, you laugh ?
Look at these Scenarios. Lots of work was done, but the last one or two steps not,
and thats the difference between. If you can do work creating a ToT Scenario,
you can surely create the last steps too.

You say that would be lots of work for many people ? yes, cause the creators
havent done their jobs well. The one single mod to list the o.k. Scenarios...
and one or two Catfishs rebuilding some failures in the best Scenarios... thats it.


-Game of the Month. You mean that Roman.sav ? For sure nobody will play that !
My first try "Alexander the Great" (beloved and great) is better for sure than that !

-I have time enough to create my own great Scenarios. I dont play Games often,
but i have fun creating my own great Scenarios.

-I will save everybody a little inconvenience, for sure. Or better, magic gorter and
guys like Catfish will. I would, perhaps, list my favourites in, they would be listed,
or not, by magic gorter or someone else, and guys like Catfish would rebuild them,
like they already do.

-Normally i dont have to look at the Screenshots to see what happened...
100 kb files are saying enough... hey ! ancient scenario called "Frosty elephants
hating the alps", for CIV 2, year 1993, 37 kb, that is saying enough.
That IS my problem. CIV 2 Test of Time, year 2009, 8,37 MB, Events.txts.exe
not working, out of business. How beautiful and sad.

If you are creating a Scenario 8 MB .rar, would you PLEASE !!! create the last steps !

That might being possible, you know ?​

 

[candle]

Hm. My point of view is another... the person creating a Scenario is the master of
desaster or not ?
Create a worthy Scenario and thats okay. Do you know what the word "o.k." means ?
Out of german language, means "ohne korrektur" or "without correcture".
I dont know if i have Gold Edition, you are right. Standard CIV 2, i think.
But thats not a problem, i dont play that stuff often.
I am not a fivty years Deity with love in Scenarios created out of 100 kb rebuilt
CIV 2 old stuff. My first and only love is Test of Time.

One question. Is there any difference between creating a ToT Scenario welldone
and insert here, or patchwork done ?
Yes. The welldone is welldone, and the patchwork not. The time to work on is nearly
the same, you laugh ?
Look at these Scenarios. Lots of work was done, but the last one or two steps not,
and thats the difference between. If you can do work creating a ToT Scenario,
you can surely create the last steps too.

You say that would be lots of work for many people ? yes, cause the creators
havent done their jobs well. The one single mod to list the o.k. Scenarios...
and one or two Catfishs rebuilding some failures in the best Scenarios... thats it.


-Game of the Month. You mean that Roman.sav ? For sure nobody will play that !
My first try "Alexander the Great" (beloved and great) is better for sure than that !

-I have time enough to create my own great Scenarios. I dont play Games often,
but i have fun creating my own great Scenarios.

-I will save everybody a little inconvenience, for sure. Or better, magic gorter and
guys like Catfish will. I would, perhaps, list my favourites in, they would be listed,
or not, by magic gorter or someone else, and guys like Catfish would rebuild them,
like they already do.

-Normally i dont have to look at the Screenshots to see what happened...
100 kb files are saying enough... hey ! ancient scenario called "Frosty elephants
hating the alps", for CIV 2, year 1993, 37 kb, that is saying enough.
That IS my problem. CIV 2 Test of Time, year 2009, 8,37 MB, Events.txts.exe
not working, out of business. How beautiful and sad.

If you are creating a Scenario 8 MB .rar, would you PLEASE !!! create the last steps !

That might being possible, you know ?​

you are not required to download any of the files, and insulting the work of others that are not as advanced as what you like is also very rude.

 

[Nicheal]

you are not required to download any of the files, and insulting the work of others that are not as advanced as what you like is also very rude.

Okay, candle... let me tell you my whole boring but fullsize truth,
and after that i will have made enough of that senseless speech.
I have learned that talking to men is only successful, they understand and are positive to.
If you dont want that "Strikers best", dont do it.

First of all, please recognise, that you can oversend any of your works, that you can
play any of the CIV works. Play what you want to play, thats not my game, thats yours.

Second. Out of my one year old experience modding ToT, i never modded before,
i can do every Scenario i want to play out of every story i want to play in a welldone
and wellworking way to do that perfect. Play what you want to play, thats only the
old ToT, but... i want to play the Scenarios working.

Third. I dont have friends playing ToT, and i thought, that it would be very nice to
talk about my favourite game (one of the) in a community for.
Its not my fault that you dont want to. The one i cant PM, the other dont answers.
Its not my fault.
After two weeks creating my Scenario "Mordor" i decided to join this Fanatics Center,
and Catfishs help pushed it into the light of welldone graphics.
Did three further weeks and now the Scenario is welldone, i think.
Its not my fault, that noone inserts failures and hints, so that i could delete them all.


My idea was to create out of my "Alexander the Great" Version 1 an ultimate Version.
My complete map "Europe" 120x240 done in January February, and Fairlines Units,
and my great ideas and totally crazy worx.
Then i found McMonkeys "Aeterna Civitas II", but only throughout his signature after
he talked to me, and i thought, wow ! I must not create my own anymore...
As i thought first viewing Catfishs "War of the Ring".

Aeterna Civitas II is a greatdone Scenario, for Multiplayer Gold Edition, and a PBEM,
Play by E-Mail... i have MGE, but PBEM is, in my opinion, a senseless idea.
After playing that great inspired Scenario, i know that it does not work single player.
Played Rome and had nothing to do. Captured one city by another, a nice gameplay
you will make an effort beating two hundred cities off without any hard battles.
A weak idiot would like it winning by hiding enemies. I dont.

Catfish said to me weeks ago, that the AI is too stupid, and the Events.txt is too
short but i as Newbee had nothing than the game ToT and i know the limits, they
are all i got.
It is possible to get the AI nervous and well striking, and i dont need one thousand
Events.txt to explain the history behind or cheate senseless things.
My point. "Aeterna Civitas II" is brilliant, but you cant play it single player...

But every Scenario must being playable single player ! Every other idea is senseless !
You wont play that thing often dont having "E-Mail players" for... and you wont have !

Candle, play what you want ! I will play the greatest Scenarios done by myself...
and Wars like hell, cause the AI will beat me really off ! But Aeterna... its sad to see...


You say, i am a riot insulting these guys and scenarios rude ?
You are the riot ! the barbar ! cause you download them and wont play them
cause they are too weak and failure-like. My PM to McMonkey wants to solve faults.


NO ONE WILL PLAY FAULTS !!!




McMonkeys Aeterna Civitas II
for MGE/PBEM Scenario

​

 

[Magic_gorter]

Moderator Action: Thread closed for now. So everybody can cool down

 

[McMonkey]

I don't want to start up a new argument with this thread. I just read the "I am disappointed!!!" thread and wanted to have my say. I have responded to your PM Nicheal.

Aeterna Civitas II was designed specifically for PBEM and would probably not be very challenging in single player mode. I did intend to convert it to ToT one day and use the events to make a single player friendly version. I just haven't had the time to do it yet. If anyone wanted to make their own events for the game or do their own ToT conversion then go right ahead

The reason I designed it for PBEM is because that's how I play Civ2 mostly (over at Civ Webring). I occasionally have the spare time to play a single player game and there are some classics out there. Most recently I played Kobayashi's Dainichi Sekai Taisen version 3 for about a week and had an excellent time.

There are many great scenarios out there amongst the not so good ones. For me personally sorting through all the scenarios, both good and bad, has been one of the things I have enjoyed about this hobby. Indeed I have a project going at Apolyton to modify old scenarios. This requires locating rough diamonds and "polishing" them by updating the graphics and sometimes the rules and events. It is worth bearing in mind that a lot of the scenarios were created more than a decade ago!

Patience is needed when it comes to releasing a scenario nowadays. The community is a lot smaller than it used to be and people have families, jobs and other interests and commitments that take up a lot of their time. It is nice to lose yourself for a while in making or playing a scenario, but its just a hobby. Its meant to be fun, there is no reason to get upset! It can take a long time for people to get a chance to play your work. I have downloaded Mordor but I just haven't had time to play it yet. Just stick with it

The most important thing to remember is that this is a community and communities only work when people have respect for one another. You can't use insulting language just because someone has a different opinion or things aren't done exactly how you might like. We aren't discussing deep political issues here, just Civ2. Keep things in perspective.

This is just my own opinion.

Keep on Civing

 

[Nicheal]

Okay. Okay. Even the last idiot on earth would have been understood that !

Let me first tell a little story, then my little, we in germany say "dwarves rebellion",
my little jerk rebellion will have an end.

The story is, that, to be deep political, the human being is mortal.
And what does it mean ?
That not every CIV 2 Player might be a fourty years old Super-Man who played that
stuff since the Eighties. My first contact with ToT was 2000, and now i had a little time
to begin modding. For me it is up to date, cause i do that. For you it might be
a nasty little thing. Sorry that i did not expect that in a Fanatics Forum, my fault !
For you it might being allright, cause you are creating Rockets to the mars or so...
that all that does not matter anything, cause you are the Super-Men of the world...

"Keep things in perspective" ... sorry, McMonkey, and sorry Fanatics Forum, but if
i would not respect all that, i would not have made any speech, or ?
Who would talk about Kobayashi or Catfish, or McMonkey ? Who would make an effort
for things he gives no damn about ?
For me that whole boring story is the same boring story as every life.
Mortals. "Keep things in perspective" cause nothing matters. We are all gods and you
are the newbee but "keep things in perspective". What does that mean ?
Work as mortal and dying slave as the other slaves for the great perspective to
being sold for ? to being killed for ?

The only perspective i have, is my own. To love the things i do until i die.
And its today CIV 2 ToT. I am very sorry ! That i do not keep things in the perspective
of these poor dying mortals ! Which are producing nonsens and world dying and
depressions and slaves.

If you think, i do not respect this community, what the hell am i doing here ?

And that is the only question.

I thank Catfish for his great helps in ToT nicer View, Sprites end, and nicer graphics
Terrain and Units.
And all the other guys talking with me ! But all this does not matter anything, or ?
We are all egomans on their way to the "keep things in perspective anything does not
matter in hells poor dying" i think. I wont say one single word anymore !
It is ever the same little story. Keep things in silence, so that we can enjoy...
keep things low, so that we must not change anything... keep things allright, even
the whole world is dying... keep things not political, cause every single fault is polite.

It IS respect to talking about. Or do you mean that holy dying is my fun ?
To lose your respect for nothing ?

Okay. Okay. You are right and you are the code of law.
I am the stranger in hell. Thats okay for me now !
But please ! Let us end this disappointing theatre right now ! Thats even too much
for a stranger like me !

I will upload all my worx, and the rest will be silence !

aaaaaaamen




​

 

[Theov]

Online Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder

In Real Life it's Called...

Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder, or OCPD.

OCPD should not be confused with Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (or, "The OC Disorder"). OCPD shares the obsessive component of OCD, but it is different from OCD in that OCPD has the letter P in its name. That and people with OCPD do not perform the weird ritualistic actions of OCD'ers, like opening a door four times or having to always eat Pringles with the concave side up.

OCPD types simply have an incredibly strict standard by which certain tasks be done, to the point that it literally can lead to violence otherwise.

So Why Does it Happen on the Internet?

At the heart of the real-life OCPD sufferer seems to be an irrational fear that the rest of the world is sloppier, dirtier and more disorganized than it should be, that it's rapidly getting worse, and that the world will fall to pieces unless someone straightens it up.

 

[McMonkey]

Nicheal,

I love reading your posts, they are almost poetic.

All I was trying to get across is that you can't expect everyone else to be as enthusiastic as you are straight away. People have lives and Civ2 might not be their #1 priority. Its fine to be passionate about something but you don't have to trash everyone else like an angry Tasmanian Devil. Patience IS a virtue and I would say it is essential for anyone creating Civ2 scenarios. People will play Mordor, but you may need to give it a little time before you get feedback. Just stick with it

 

[ainwood]

Moderator Action: Closed.

I'll leave magic_gorter to review and deal with this, but a couple of points:
1.) Don't make threads addressing specific posters. Take it to PM.
2.) If a moderator closes a thread, then its for a reason. Carrying on the discussion in another thread runs the risk of invoking the wrath of the moderators, and I'm pretty sure that magic_gorter is simply itching to play with his ban-stick.....