I guess I am terrible at fighting Wars... Help?

[Gnomercy]

I am a peace-loving, empire builder. I admit it. Fighting wars in this game is really kinda not my deal. However, I always seem to end up in a war and fighting a war in Civ4 is the single most frustrating aspect of the game for me.

I guess my question is how can you possibly win a war against someone of roughly the same tech level as you? I just don't see it. I really don't.

Every time I lauch any sort of attack the AI always seems to have the right unit to defend and don't even get me started on "Archers in Cities". Trying to take them with anything that is not at least 2 steps ahead in the Tech tree is nothing but a source of frustration.

Now, I am not some total n00b who has no clue what he is doing even though it sounds like it. I understand each unit has strengths vs other types of units. I understand the promotions. I understand fortified units in cities and city walls.

I just quit a game out of frustration. I was using mounted Archers/Swordsmen/Axemen. The Ai was using roughly the same level units. before Attacking I figure the math in my head taking everything into account and I have roughly a 50/50 chance of winning yet I lose 6 attacks in a row 3 turns in a row (saving before I attack and if I get wipped waiting till next turn and try again). This is only on Noble.

What the heck do you people do to win wars? Is it a matter of hitting them with 3 or 4 times the number of units and just "zerging" them or is there some strategy I am missing? Granted, I did not have catapults yet but the % defense of the city was only 20% and I took that into account when figuring the % chance to win.

I think this game is great until it comes to the wars. It's really pushing me to the edge of just quitting.

I'd really like some suggestions There has got to be something I am just missing.

 

[MenacingVitamin]

I am a peace-loving player as well (current game on prince diff. is in year 1630 and I have yet to fight anyone ), but I may have a couple of small ideas for you.

1. If you have a unit highlighted, hold [alt] and hover the mouse over an enemy defender and you can see the odds of the encounter adjusted with all the modifiers. It saves you from trying to calculate everything yourself and can focus on the bigger picture. This trick helped me a LOT after I started using it.

2. I have found that overwhelming forces are your best bet. Send troops in stacks.

3. You may want to bombard defenses, no matter how low they are to begin with . A 0% defense modifier on a city makes capturing it so much easier. Bring catapaults if you can.

4. Use terrain to your advantage. Try to advance to solid perimeter positions on your way to the enemies' cities.


Perhaps some more experienced warriors can offer you more.

 

[Paradoxus]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=137246

 

[Gnomercy]

How do you manage to keep up with the computer's AI if you do not attack them? I always find myself falling behind in points fairly early in the game and never, ever can catch back up.

 

[MenacingVitamin]

How do you manage to keep up with the computer's AI if you do not attack them? I always find myself falling behind in points fairly early in the game and never, ever can catch back up.

You don't need the most points to win. In my current game I am I think fourth out of seven in points at the moment, but I have other advantages that will help me in the long run, namely massive amounts of culture, great foreign relations and my commerce is now on cruise control--helping me to get up there in tech. If I find that my original idea to succeed in a cultural victory becomes unobtainable, I am becoming prepared to make a huge push in the end game for land, science or diplomacy. Just this example...I can't avoid war in every game I play, I just prefer to do so.

Points aren't everything--this game makes it easier to adjust your situation at every corner. I am not nearly so quick in this game to count myself out than I was in III.

 

[Mujadaddy]

1. Leave the fighting to the dwarves, Gnome

What the heck do you people do to win wars? Is it a matter of hitting them with 3 or 4 times the number of units?

2. Yes.

 

[damxam]

You often don't need to attack the AI in his cities. Take your main army to one of his cities, then cut off the roads leading to his city, put your force next to his city and use one or two units to pillage his improvements. Pretty soon he'll start starving and he'll get desparate and attack you. Once he's lost enough units, finish the city off. This works well on noble. Usually you don't even need to do this, if you just park your army next to his city he will usually decide to attack you eventually. If there's a river tile next to his city then wait on that because he'll get the -75% (or was it -50%) modifier for attacking across a river.

 

[neener]

One of the biggest differences I noticed in my attacks on AI towns was when I started using catapults for collateral damage. Catapults are cheaper to produce than most other units, and don't require any resources (that I remember, anyway). I started to build them in droves and use them to soften up the entire stack of city defenders before my 'real' troops attacked. I'd lose 3 or 4 catapults on each of the AI's big cities, but they were so cheap I didn't care, and their sacrifice made a huge difference. When I took the entire Aztec kingdom with a stack of 4 'real' troops and 10 catapults, I didn't lose a single unit I cared about.

Next game I play, I'm definitely going to start the war with catapults, instead of trying to catch up once I've begun attacking. I might even churn out War Elephants since I seem to remember they're cheaper than Axemen, and they're basically just as effective when the enemy has been softened up.

So yeah, basically you just zerg them.

 

[The Duff Man]

Look at the section under "Articles" that describes combat and how the results are calculated. A unit with strength 4 up against a unit with strength 6 is NOT going to win 40% of the time (4 out of 10). Maybe you are calculating the percentages wrong.

I have used two tactics effectively:

1. With the Inca, their UU gets a bonus versus archers and replaces a warrior. They only cost 15 shields. With a size 3 or 4 city you can pump these guys out every 4 turns, sooner if you have a good starting location. It won't take you long to have 9 of them, rush a city. Even if they have 3 archers you are going to take it. Doing this early prevents them from having Spearmen or Axeman, they either lack the tech or haven't yet gotten the resource hooked up to their city.

2. Catapults. I am sure you can find MANY threads here on how to use them, but I try to batter the city enough so that I don't lose ANY other types of ground units. Typically I'll bombard with three of them for a couple of turns until the defense bonus of the city is 0. Then I'll sacrifice two of them to cause collateral damage to the entire defending force. Then my troops move in with zero loses and all I have to do to repeat is bring up two more catapults.

 

[KAuss]

You generally don't need an army 3 or 4 times thier size...

You just gotta stack yours correctly...

I usually go at least 10-12...

It's also nice to know what kind of army your enemy have...

If they're horse / elephant heavy, just stack 3 spear type two archers (for taking of new city) at least one horse type (they're the grunt and usually higher power) and 4 or more catapults... Catapults will degrade their defense to 0 quick if you stack them and the collateral damage is the only way to attack a stack of units... Once your catapults do their job, just walk in with your most powerful unit to ensure the first battle is won, then usually they'll have a stack of the same type (mainly archer type) left over and should be a walk in the park to wipe them out with whatever you have without city defense...

Just about every stack built right in the game should survive a good few cities before they're depleted... Most likely the only units you'll need to replace would be catapults, but after a few rounds you won't have to because they can retreat!!!

As for city defense, I usually pump out lots of horse type just so you can intercept before they do dmg... They also work wonders solo since they're usually higher power than most and the AI rarely attack with pikes...

 

[Hrothgar]

If you're a peace-lover, then remember that you might not have to fight. Obviously, keep your defenses strong, so that when they attack, you can take them down. Try diplomacy with other leaders, maybe you can convince them to go to war with your aggressor and that will take the pressure off you. Also, try using fast troops to get inside enemy lines and pillage their resources; if you destroy their mines and farms, you weaken their ability to sustain combat while getting money in the process.

Basically, let them waste their troops attacking you, and punish them for it.

 

[SeaDog98520]

My observation is that defense has the greater advantage in civ iv. So, if you want to take their territory... use the catapaults in large numbers first.. which is much more realistic, historically speaking.
But if you just want to win the war quickly without great losses.. station good defenders on your border to prevent the enemy invading and pillage every improvement you can until peace is declared...

Two things I've noticed from this.. one is that I can't get the enemy to give anything for peace during negotiations except money.. and that pillageing the countryside is now very profitable with money made each pillage.. a town will give money as well as the hamlet and cottage.. even fish boats..

The Romans declared war on me and after defeating their first advance, I made enough money with pillaging to pay for the upgrades on my troops, something I usually can't afford to do...

And usually the best cities to capture are the barbs...

this is a whole different kettle of fish from C3C... and I like it..

 

[oopsy poopsy]

I'm not a complete builder anymore (mostly thanks to help on this forum), but if you're a builder, one of the reasons you're probably running into combat problems is because you're not focusing on promotions as much as you should. They are absolutely crucial and could easily be why when attacking with equal base units you're getting slaughtered. All it takes is for there to be +25% for fortifying plus city defenses (you must have bombarding units!), plus any kind of city defense or unit specific defense promotions and that longbow is actually a 12.5 or more. Remember that you don't have to add the promotions as soon as you get them and if you are going to fight a war then there are civics that can really help get your units ready to fight. You do need to use the alt function or just right click and hold over the enemy unit to see what the actual numbers are. Just because it's your 8 vs. their 6 doesn't mean that's what is happening in a particular situation. If you're not checking it could be 8 vs. 14 and then the computer will win 6 in a row quite often.

 

[Gnomercy]

Thanks for all the responses. I've played a few more games and am still having similar problems, just not as bad. Thanks to alot of help from the forums I am not having as tough a time.

It's still really frustrating at times, but at least now I know why I am losing alot of the time.

I figured out the catapult trick on my own. I just use them as expendable troops to deal collateral damage after a cities defense are reduced to 0%. Means I have to bring alot of catapults but it seems to work pretty well.

 

[Panth]

I'm generally the peaceful builder type meyself. This game I just finished snapped me out of that though. I was the Arabs - had planned on being the culture/tech guy. Monty was next door though and decided he wanted to fight. I ended up fighting him for about 5000 years before wiping him out.

One thing you said interests me: you mentioned that you can't beat their units if you're not a couple of techs up. If you're not warmongering, why aren't you a couple techs up? Us builder types should always be a couple techs up

Anyway, my meager tips:
1: Ensure your cities are defended so you don't lose those while going after him
2: If you've got cats/arty, get together a stack of those + your best attackers - bombard city until down to 0% then attack for collateral - then mop up the wounded with your troops.
3. Cities on a hill (in my experience) can be WAY more difficult to take so plan on enough troops to take 2 cities.
4. Pillage EVERYTHING. You make money, take away their resources, they won't put workers out if you're in the vicinity. If you can't beat 'em, cripple 'em. Cut their resources, tear down those towns that took forever to build up, scare their workers inside. Good pillaging runs will put their productin in the toilet and allow you to overtake them eventually.