I hate spies! Well I hate other Civs' spies...

[Walter R]

In my current game I'm in Renaissance era, and have somehow managed to be highest in tech according to demo screen (can't be by much though)...and predictably every Civ is stealing tech like I've left the lab doors open or something. I can't build any anti-spy buildings yet but i have my only spy on counter-spy duty in capital. Something is being stolen practically every turn, although I guess I have the consolation that they will run out of targets soon! Am I failing to employ some well-known strategy here?

 

[FeiLing]

Spies are indeed awful. Especially on larger maps. And oh lord... never be so dumb to add more than the standard amount of civs or you'll be annoyed to hell by the constant bombardment with city state and tech stealing spy messages.

 

[nanomage]

you're the tech leader, go kill them. Also, stealing techs doesn't really harm you - while their spies are busy learning masonry, yours can coup some cty-states for you.

 

[scheva007]

the system indeed shows a big gap on larger maps. Its like running MI5 on 4 people, of which one is the cleaner

 

[pilot00]

Its because they have stolen a couple of techs and got levels. Thats why yours cant catch them. You need constabularies and police stations to stop them. Its annoying as hell and a good incentive to build the firewall

 

[Wodan]

If you haven't leveled up your single spy, he's not going to be very good on the defensive. If you're playing at a low level, and thus are the tech leader that early in the game, then that will generally make it more difficult to level up your spy.

Seems to me the game balance is well designed. If you're the leader that early in the game, then spies should be able to steal techs from you.

 

[Gucumatz]

A few simple answers, do what multiplayers do - don't give embassies to every civ you meet! If a civ hasn't seen your city, it can't place a spy in it. Only give embassies to people you know will be your friends and therefore won't spy on you.

Simple solution/

 

[pilot00]

A few simple answers, do what multiplayers do - don't give embassies to every civ you meet! If a civ hasn't seen your city, it can't place a spy in it. Only give embassies to people you know will be your friends and therefore won't spy on you.

Simple solution/

Depends. It can be simple but it can be complicated as well. If the AI doesn't have an embassy in your capital it will send its spies on the first city of yours it has discovered.
Sometimes its more worth it to have a single spy station in the capital and killing them all each turn than the need to have multiples station left and right.

Seems to me the game balance is well designed. If you're the leader that early in the game, then spies should be able to steal techs from you.

Without wanting to sound offensive, but I have to ask you, why you consider this to be an example of gameplay balance?
And why they should be able to? It is logical that they will attempt to infiltrate your civ in an attempt to steal some juicy goods but why should they be able to (unmolested if thats what you are saying, excuse me if I get it wrong) steal you easily?

It is a good mechanic to be sure in an attempt to bridge the gap but far from effective. Never will a tech leader be reached with tech stealing alone.

 

[Galgus]

I don't even care if they steal my tech, my spies are too busy with city states.

 

[apocalypse105]

Espionage a unbalanced tool for the AI. Especialy the coup system and tech stealing.

If you haven't leveled up your single spy, he's not going to be very good on the defensive. If you're playing at a low level, and thus are the tech leader that early in the game, then that will generally make it more difficult to level up your spy.

Seems to me the game balance is well designed. If you're the leader that early in the game, then spies should be able to steal techs from you.

Really counter espionage is useless they don't succeed a lot which causes the Ai spies to level up and you will not be able to counter them anymore.

i've put my first spy in my capital at the start of the renaissance untill the information era and he only killed 2 Spies in the hole game while i've got 10 techs stolen from me . All the other spies succeeded whats the point and use of counter espionage again it only has 20% change of catching them?


Other examples of the so balanced espionage system :
i've had 500 influence in a city state and a spy inside the city state and alexander couped my city state in one turn what? Why should I bother with city state and diplomatic victory?


Notice that these are the only things the AI does stealing techs and couping city state the 2 most unbalanced thing i've said this before but firaxis leaves it in the game because it makes the game harder but its unbalanced. Same goes for the instant heal promotion.

 

[Galgus]

I also hate the instant heal promotion.

I can agree that counter-espionage is probably too unreliable at the moment.

Ideally, the AI should try to hit a city without a Spy in it instead of steal anyway often.

 

[docbud]

It is ridiculous that the AI can steal so many techs. I think I had eight or nine stolen right off the bat by Spain. So basically my defensive spy was useless (actually it was useless after the second tech was stolen). And I even had a constabulary in my capital.

After I finally got a police station in there, I ended up killing her level three spy.

20 turns later she steals a tech with a level-one!

I do understand how difficult a job the spy in your capital has, however. I mean, if you have a half-dozen spies from other AIs infiltrating you, some techs are bound to be stolen. But there has to be a limit.

In one game (last week) Ghandi kept stealing. And he was second in tech, and very close behind me. I had a spy in his city, and there was nothing to steal. And I had a spy in my capital.

Anyway--I finish fertilizer, and two turns later he steals it. I researched something else and about four or five turns he steals that as well. I research flight, and BAM! Steals that within a few turns. Same thing with artillery. I ended up quitting as it was getting ridiculous.

And everyone else was stealing with impunity. My capital spy didn't kill one single AI spy.

And this was on Prince level.

 

[UnitedSquadron]

I don't waste spies on counter-intelligence until I build a police station. I simply use them for intrigue and rigging elections. I think the espionage system needs to be balanced a bit more.

 

[Unresolved]

I don't really worry about my techs getting stolen. They rarely steal anything of importance(based on turn time) and if they have to steal techs from me, then I'm stronger than they are. I only put spies in my capital so that I can level them up to level 3 and set them in an important CS. I rarely build a constabulary in my capital.

 

[Granty555]

If you can, it sometimes helps to leave an unimportant tech unresearched for as long as possible, so you always have something to steal when you hit the Ren and can level up your first spy (I'm looking at you sailing/optics).

 

[sendos]

If aiming for tech lead, never ever accept embassies. Then AI won't know where your capital is and they won't steal tech.

In my current Korean game, I got so ahead in tech, I choose this method, along with counter intelligence measures and I didn't lose too many techs to AI. Even with a level 3 spy on counter-intelligence, I still lost quite a few techs.

 

[Callonia]

Espionage is one of the other things that's biased in favor of your AI.

Takes you 30 turns to steal a tech?

It takes AI to steal it in 6 turns with a lvl 1 spy in information era.

So I just totally disregard police stations and consulbatorys, cuz they're just only for AI to use and save myself 2gpt.

I only use spies on offense and defending city states plus spying on ai civs and that's sbasically it, if i happen to steal a tech, sweet. If not, no biggie. I dont lose sleep over rigged system like spying.

1% chance for AI to succeed in coup? It succeed. Very improbable but happens anyways. You have 2k influence with city state? Couped!

If my pet city states gets couped and I don't particularly care much about them, I conquer the city state after bullying it for tribute and tell the greeks to shove it for stealing my pets and if theyd on't like it, they are free to dow me and get the couped city state back if they can that is.

 

[Unresolved]

Takes you 30 turns to steal a tech?

It takes AI to steal it in 6 turns with a lvl 1 spy in information era.

Era has nothing to do with the rate of tech stealing. It has to do with the level of technology you're stealing. You(the player) can steal techs from the AI in 2 turns if you're going for stuff like Sailing, Optics, etc...

 

[Walter R]

If you haven't leveled up your single spy, he's not going to be very good on the defensive. If you're playing at a low level, and thus are the tech leader that early in the game, then that will generally make it more difficult to level up your spy.

Seems to me the game balance is well designed. If you're the leader that early in the game, then spies should be able to steal techs from you.

Wodan I think you're being a bit harsh. I was barely the tech leader, I'm not playing at low level (well it might be low level to you) and the rate of theft was ridiculous. Finally rage-quit the game, something I very rarely do, after William stole Archaeology one turn and then built the Louvre turn or so later when I had been building it for 12 turns and had 5 left to go. I just think that in some games the AI seems to keep rolling sixes...

Anyway, thanks for comments from everyone. I don't think I'll bother with counter-spy in future unless I'm playing as Elizabeth.

 

[IkM]

I like spies. I like to use them, I like when my spies kills enemy spies. if your science is bad spies help you a lot, free tech, that's great, isn't it?