I just don't understand what I'm doing wrong...

[rylasasin]

I think you'd be helped most by playing a game of greece, build hoplites continuously, and kill everything you can find. The lessons learned in such a game would help you in peaceful game to come.

Combat is not the hardest part of this game. Managing the economy is.

I don't think I could do that at all...

tried it just now. I just couldn't. It's just too... intimidating. All that land to keep track of and explore.... while carrying the immense possiblity of being attacked on all sides.... so I quit after about round 30.

Like I said, too much chance of losing, badly.




.... maybe I should just give up on this game.

 

[Ravellion]

I don't think I could do that at all...

tried it just now. I just couldn't. It's just too... intimidating. All that land to keep track of and explore.... while carrying the immense possiblity of being attacked on all sides.... so I quit after about round 30.

Like I said, too much chance of losing, badly.




.... maybe I should just give up on this game.

If you play the game in constant apprehension of what may or may not happen, I don't think this game is for you. Each new playthrough is an entirely new world of possibilities, with no one who knows what might occur. Peace? Maybe. Conflict? Likely. All out war? Perhaps. To me, that has always been the strength of the civ series. yes, I have lost a few games. But I also snatched victory from the jaws of defeat, and clearly remember my first immortal win, using bowmen near hills and rivers in combination with defending my walled cities to fight off hordes of Roman Legions. For a millinium, I feared for the survival of my civ... but not only did I survive... I counterattacked, conquered Rome, and eventually won the game through a science victory.

if that kind of a game does not appeal to you, then maybe this game is not for you. But you could also play Settler difficulty, where the AI will never declare war on you.

 

[rylasasin]

If you play the game in constant apprehension of what may or may not happen, I don't think this game is for you. Each new playthrough is an entirely new world of possibilities, with no one who knows what might occur. Peace? Maybe. Conflict? Likely. All out war? Perhaps. To me, that has always been the strength of the civ series. yes, I have lost a few games. But I also snatched victory from the jaws of defeat, and clearly remember my first immortal win, using bowmen near hills and rivers in combination with defending my walled cities to fight off hordes of Roman Legions. For a millinium, I feared for the survival of my civ... but not only did I survive... I counterattacked, conquered Rome, and eventually won the game through a science victory.

if that kind of a game does not appeal to you, then maybe this game is not for you. But you could also play Settler difficulty, where the AI will never declare war on you.

Well at least I learned something today... well a few things.

Warriors are all but useless at killing anything but barbs, and they suck at even that....

oh and being meatshields for city attacks so they don't attack archers.

... and archers are the bomb.



Took over like two city states very early on as carthage....

maybe it's not hopeless after all... maybe.


I dunno. I'd hate to give this up because... well, as much as I suck terribly at it, it's still addicting and fun.

plus I did spend money for it and the DLCs....

I dunno. Worst thing for me is not having someone to talk to about it (like I said, none of my AIM/MSN/Yahoo/Steam contacts play this game (a few on steam have it but none really play it) on a constant basis. And, i'm guessing that's the way most people really learn these kinds of things, from friends with this game?

I mean, for some reason I'm the kind of person that can read a large strategy guide, and while I might learn a thing or two, I still don't get a whole lot out of it.

 

[Esoteric Arcane]

Always feel free to post questions here, a lot of good people will answer them to their best of their knowledge, there might be one or two trolls, but the mods are usually quick on the ball with them.

Warriors are good meatshields, I usually give them promotions of shield against range attack and medics ability as they are usually next to each other and fortified right next to the town they are seigeing to keep pressure off my archers (anti unit) and catapaults to lower the citys defense fast.. Once they are swords man they can attack the city, but usually its still just wait till the cats have done their job. Archers don't do much against towns but they can hit it, and move outif they take damage. Cats are about the only thing if you play harder levels to keep away from getting hit.

 

[gozpel]

If you quit the game my answers might still be useful for you.

erm, take screenies of what and when?

At current time and of your main lands, maybe demographics too, it could make me see something that I can't see by not having the right DLC and not being able to download the save. A picture says more than a thousand words.!

Hadn't planned on connecting them with anything but harbors.

I always connect my cities early to get that gold flowing, when you're able to build those harbours, you can count the maintanence of said roads and the maintainance of the harbours, what cities will benefit from harbours only/roads only. If harbours are better, then you delete the roads with workers.

While I wasn't making too terribly much, I wasn't running on negative or anything.

You want more gold than just a trickle, roads early are great if your cities are above 4 or better, the bigger the city, the more gold you get from traderoutes. No reason at all to connect "future cities", if you think they will grow slowly.

hmm maybe... though wonders are more important in cultural than they are any other time aren't they?

Wonders are so tempting, for me is the Stonehenge, I want it. If I lose it I sook and make a plan to take it, if it's on my own continent. If not, figure out a new plan. I never try for all wonders, I rather build a handful of units to defend what I have.

Only ones I had so far was tradition and honor.

Liberty is King, well at least before G&K! Everything in that policy is ok, faster building settler ->free settler, faster workers ->free worker, 1 extra production in all cities, 1 unhappiness by every city connected to the capitol (there are my roads) and the last one makiing policies cheaper in the future and you get a Golden age! Not to mention you get a free Great Person when you finish this policy-tree.

In culture-games I still go through this tree first.

Biggest problem: Getting overwelmed by France. Jerusalem was able to hold them off for quite a while but france just had so many (plus he had pikemen while I Just had spearmen available to me) that I knew it was pointless to continue, so I just called it quits.

That's why I build units before wonders, know your enemy! France, Germany and Aztecs loves to hassle me. Many times I had Russia, Greece and Siam doing the same, if I'm weak.

All in all, it's a steep learning-curve, but when you get it, it's quite fun.

 

[IrishBandit]

Nights makes the game harder from what I've read of it.

 

[teccuk]

I feel your pain rylasasin. Civ 5 is the one i have found by far the most confusing in that i never know whether what i'm doing is having any effect.

Play on the easiest levels and download and print the epic "The Civ5 guide". I also cheated by making a little island stacked with resources in the editor, playing that helped learn the mechanics. Its weird as Civ5 has been accused of dumbing down, but the least accessible for me.

 

[Esoteric Arcane]

If your like me, I tend to grasp harder to reach ideas easier than overly simple ones that just go over my head. Think of Civ 5 as a generic version of Civ 3, if you haven't played it, you didn't miss much though. I have to keep myself from over complicating this game. It's quite linear, pick a win condition, pick a Civ that is best in it, beeline for the best policy, best tech for your Civ, and and keep your enemies off any military strategic resource or if you want a little more fun any resource. The tactics in the game are harder due to 1upt, forcing units to move around on tiles that have two less access points from previous civs (8 to 6) movement direction which causes severe bottlenecking, takes longer to move around a unit if for some reason you can't go through it on the new type map.

I do try to make the game more complex but as the forum pretty much shows, what's best and what's useless, there are huge gaps that may be filled someday though.

 

[rylasasin]

Okay, time for something much more specific.

Here's the situation: I'm playing as Japan. Timescale Epic, Maptype Earth, size Huge. Victory Type: Aggressive Cultural. So far, things are good: I've all but taken over north America. There are are only two civs there (appart from me): Persia and Greece (Ironically enough). Darius fell easily enough, as did the city states. puppetted the cities of course. I have

Now... Only greece stands in my way. But there's just one problem...

... all of his cities (he has 3 of them: Athens, Sparta, and Cornith) in Alaska. Meaning I can't get to him from land. (not without losing all my units anyway), since the only way to is a narrow 1-tile winding path (anyone who's played Earth should know what I'm talking about.)

The only possible way is sea invasion.

Now, i'm not sure AT ALL how to go about this. or if this is even possible at this point.

I've posted a screen showing the planned invasion point (honestly it's the only one I know of that seems doable in any way, or is there another?

From multiple failed playthoughs, i've highlighted where I've found Athens to be. I do not EXACTLY know where sparta is, but I've highlighted where I think it is due to arrows hitting catapults/archers from that direction.

Known resistance is as follows:

At least 2 Hoplites

At least 1 Archer (was picking me off from Athens.)

At least 1 companion Calverly

At least 3 warrior (one of which is garrisoned in Corinth, one is on the mainland somewhere, and thusfar only 1 attacked me directly during my failed invasion. (he traveled through the pass at the beginning of the game before I took Vatican City)

This screenshot is just before the invasion. (I've gotten into the habit of saving just before I start an invasion.

Occording to my military advisor he gives me the "I think I saw the only unit greece had blah blah" speech, so IN THEROY I think I should be able to do this. Alex is 2nd to last when it comes to points, so actually in theory I could ignore him...

... though I'd rather not.

 

[Esoteric Arcane]

Whats the difficulty level?

If it was me since I have a thing for naval warfare, is send two triremes up, clear their ships, pull back heal. Send them back up and bombard the city. If you didn't lose either ship, this tactic will work, but it will take a long time mind you. Build as many ships that will fill their use to bombard the the town plus one the ships needed as if you had the +1 range. And milk the xp for your ships and bring them back to heal if they recieved any damage, add ships if you think you can use them for this tactic. Your goal for promotions is the +1 range and possibly indirect fire, you should soon be on the way to upgrade these ships as well, you can try slipping a couple units up there atleast two melee if you can get a siege unit in place to milk xp as well. If you can't you might have to wait for frigates and that time you'll have a good size navy outside the range bombarding that town but you can always try a suicidal ram raid with your soldiers after a bombardment if you want it sooner than later. What also works for ships is getting them the fire and move promotion, that way they can get in, shoot, turn, shoot move out and another ship follows suit. While healing the train of ships.

 

[rylasasin]

Whats the difficulty level?

warlord. Always warlord.

If it was me since I have a thing for naval warfare, is send two triremes up, clear their ships, pull back heal. Send them back up and bombard the city. If you didn't lose either ship, this tactic will work, but it will take a long time mind you. Build as many ships that will fill their use to bombard the the town plus one the ships needed as if you had the +1 range. And milk the xp for your ships and bring them back to heal if they recieved any damage, add ships if you think you can use them for this tactic.
Your goal for promotions is the +1 range and possibly indirect fire, you should soon be on the way to upgrade these ships as well, you can try slipping a couple units up there atleast two melee if you can get a siege unit in place to milk xp as well. If you can't you might have to wait for frigates and that time you'll have a good size navy outside the range bombarding that town but you can always try a suicidal ram raid with your soldiers after a bombardment if you want it sooner than later. What also works for ships is getting them the fire and move promotion, that way they can get in, shoot, turn, shoot move out and another ship follows suit. While healing the train of ships.

Unfortunately Triremes have been changed into melee units with G&K, so that tactic doesn't really work as well.

 

[RaiddinnRZ]

Rylasasin - I tried to send you an email, hopefully it went through.

 

[The Pilgrim]

rylasasin
Two basic but very important points:
- Build National College and build it early in every game!
- Explore, find other civs and sell them spare luxuries for 240 and spare strategic resources for 45 per unit.

That should allow you to play on prince at least.

 

[rylasasin]

okay some things.....


now that I've conquered greece and persia, and now that I have the entire contenent of north america to myself, Perhaps it's time to settle down for just a bit and consolidate power.

I've annexed all the cities (had them all puppeted, except for my own of course), so now I want some advice on how to manage them.

Persepolis

Pasargadae

Kagoshima

Satsuma

Geneva

Milan

Osaka

Kyoto

Tokyo

Vatican City

Cornith

Sparta

Athens


Basically, the advice I need is how to improve these cities. What to build, what improvements to build around it and where.... what improvements (if any) to tear down, etc.

 

[Zednaught]

For any puppeted city, your best bet is going to be trading posts, as they default to gold focus. Annexing cities will add to your unhappiness without a courthouse and slow down social policies. These may not be huge downsides on Warlord.

Managing each city depends on what resources/terrain it has and your own strategic goals. For example, seeing as Milan has three wines, see if you have the appropriate faith to purchase a monastery. Early on, I often look for places with a unique luxury to settle a new city. Rivers are great to settle by, and having at least one coastal city is nice.

In a broad sense, a well balanced city develops its food first, then production, then your options open up and you may pursue gold or specialists. More citizens will benefit every area of your empire. Your buildings also need to reflect the particular circumstances. For example, if a city has abundant luxury resources and food but little production potential, you may want to make this a gold generating city.

I'd also advise allying with some maritime cities to improve food to your cities. So many of your cities have very poor food surpluses, and it will take them a long time to grow. Constant growth can lead to happiness problems, though, which could lead to problems if you want to expand.


For example, Vatican City is currently production focused, so it will take 22 turns to get another citizen. It'll never be a large city, but with some farms it could begin to take advantage of of its excellent production.

Persepolis will take 45 turns to get another citizen because it's gold focused.

In general, it's worth it to use the appropriate improvement for any of the tiles that have a resource picture on them.

River tiles and flood plains do well with farms, hills with mines, plains with trading posts, forests can do well with lumber mills (which I normally use) chopped down and farmed, or trading posted. Try to avoid tundra and desert.

These are just my own generalizations, mind you, and though I play on Emperor, there are many more experienced posters here.

 

[rylasasin]

For any puppeted city, your best bet is going to be trading posts, as they default to gold focus. Annexing cities will add to your unhappiness without a courthouse and slow down social policies. These may not be huge downsides on Warlord.

I've been told however that if you build the appropriate buildings, it doesn't matter all that much.

Managing each city depends on what resources/terrain it has and your own strategic goals. For example, seeing as Milan has three wines, see if you have the appropriate faith to purchase a monastery.

Only problem: Early in the game I pretty much forgone Faith in favor of pumping out units. Seems I'm pretty much paying for it now since i'm generating faith at a very low rate, and I have no religion to call my own (the faith that's in the annexed Greek cities I pretty much inherited.)

Something to note in my French run, perhaps?

Early on, I often look for places with a unique luxury to settle a new city. Rivers are great to settle by, and having at least one coastal city is nice

In a broad sense, a well balanced city develops its food first, then production, then your options open up and you may pursue gold or specialists. More citizens will benefit every area of your empire. Your buildings also need to reflect the particular circumstances. For example, if a city has abundant luxury resources and food but little production potential, you may want to make this a gold generating city.

Ah okay, so focus on food first, then then production... and see where it goes from there?

I'd also advise allying with some maritime cities to improve food to your cities. So many of your cities have very poor food surpluses, and it will take them a long time to grow. Constant growth can lead to happiness problems, though, which could lead to problems if you want to expand.

Only one problem: I killed all of them. At least, the ones I've seen.

For example, Vatican City is currently production focused, so it will take 22 turns to get another citizen. It'll never be a large city, but with some farms it could begin to take advantage of of its excellent production.

Persepolis will take 45 turns to get another citizen because it's gold focused.

Good good, This is exactly what I need right now: Specifics. Got any more of them?

That also goes for Building/buying building lists too. So far: Courthouses, Markets, Monuments, Shrines, etc.

In general, it's worth it to use the appropriate improvement for any of the tiles that have a resource picture on them.

River tiles and flood plains do well with farms, hills with mines, plains with trading posts, forests can do well with lumber mills (which I normally use) chopped down and farmed, or trading posted. Try to avoid tundra and desert.


These are just my own generalizations, mind you, and though I play on Emperor, there are many more experienced posters here.

Well I mean for those cities specifically.... what would be your advice then.

 

[Vatras]

Persepolis: build workshop, then courthouse and market
Pasargadae: workshop, courthouse
Kagoshima: shrine, then market -> you can get use out of religion, even if you didnt found it
Satsuma: hm...get some more production and farm the plains
Geneva: probably you dont have sawmills yet, but they would fit nice along the river; production is too low here to be useful right now ;(
Milan: workshop, market
Osaka: low production again, workshop
Kyoto: finish Stoneworks, build Petra
Tokyo: clear two woods and build farms
Vatican City: courthouse next
Corinth: shrine, workshop, market
Sparta: food, then production
Athens: same as Sparta

(The terrain is pretty horrible around some of the cities, btw.)

You can maybe get rid of some walls to reduce maintenance, depending on military threats and personal preference.
Connect all cities by road, and then leave off the roadbuilding.
You do not need to be ahead in tech, if you are ahead in production capacity and/or gold - those two can solve all problems. You can switch to producing cash and then buy the buildings/units you want to bypass the low-production problem, but do the math first to see what is really faster.
You need a lot of workshops and libraries in the cities still.

Don't take my notes too much too heart, as I play usually on prince/king, and there are better players around. I used to play the klackons in Master of Orion 2, and I am still very much production oriented

 

[Zednaught]

I was trying to avoid too many specific examples of what to build because I think it's much more important to know why you're taking certain actions. Knowing what to build for the next twenty turns is ultimately only going to be a blip compared to the length of the game as a whole.

Every city is going to be its own case, but you also need to tie things into a bigger picture. In many cases, your decisions are pretty straightforward, such as first focusing on growth, or addressing happiness if it starts to hamper future production, and like I said there are general rules to follow for each type of tile that work most of the time for each improvement.

Eventually, you should start thinking farther ahead-if a city has poor tiles all around it, future citizens may not contribute very much, and only eat into the happiness needed for better cities.

How are you planning on winning the game? Tying everything together into a long term goal is how you set yourself apart from the AI.

Is it Domination? Then you'll probably want some high production cities with barracks, plus some buildings, resources, and wonders to deal with the unhappiness that comes with conquest, and don't forget that unit maintenance can eat into your gold. If you aren't planning on attacking, then a huge army hurts you. Gold can work, too, if you make an effort out of it. In my last game, my 15 cities were giving about 850 gpt by turn 315 enough to buy anything, pretty much.

Diplomatic wins generally want gold focused civs, whereas science benefits from high population cities, with specialists and buildings focused on science, not to mention a few friends for research agreements. Culture needs a small number of controlled cities (probably out of reach for you now), with a focus on appropriate buildings and wonders.

Actually, one of the best ways to improve your play, if you're interested, is to subscribe to SBFMadDjinn on youtube and watch some of his Let's Plays, even if you only watch the first 100 turns or so. He's extremely good at the game, and his LPs helped me greatly improve my understanding of Civ 5 for achieving any victory condition. Pay attention to how he develops and places his cities and how he conducts wars. Some advanced strategies, like how he uses research agreements and great scientists, may no longer work, but I'd expect a new LP for G&K coming sometime.

 

[Tiaramisu]

You said something about trying to take a city state with four warriors? That's definitely not the grandest of plans. Ideally, you would want siege units like catapults if you have them, ranged units like archers and if it's a coastal city, triremes all bombarding the city. Then when it's in the red, send in the warriors who should easily be able to take the city. You'll find you won't get much of anywhere just tossing soldiers at cities. Also, don't fear large armies, because the AI is pretty terrible. If you have machinery, build crossbowmen for defense. They have a very strong ranged attack that can easily one-hit ancient era units and are still nothing to sneeze at when musketmen and cannons appear. Not to mention, if you're playing an archipelago map (at least in my experience) wars are almost nonexistant since chances are nobody will have a shared border, so it's not exactly something to worry about.

 

[Glassmage]

Hi there OP, I see that you are frustrated. I just played Polynesia on Prince Archipelago map. I spammed maori warriors and triremes a lot and took out enemies capitals early then I have all their wonders, money,.etc. then it's smooth sailing from there with techs. I think you just have to force yourself not to build any buildings available in your cities and focus on military and positive gold.