I request no future era.

[Xen]

Originally posted by Hellfire


I would challenge that statement that Soviet weapons are inferior.

Soviet MiGs for a long time were highly advanced fighters, rivaling their western counterparts, simply because MiG test pilots were pushed to do more dangerous testing which created different results. In most of the west, you didn't want to kill your pilots because you needed those pilots and if you didn't care for their health they'd stop working for you. However, if you want to find out as quick as you can how to prevent a pilot from dying, put a bunch of pilots into airplanes and put them into dangerous situations and see if they die or not. That's how soviet tests often worked out.

The T-74 medium tank was considered the best tank of WW2, even better than German Panzers. Panzers aren't considered particularly faster than other tanks, they were simply stronger with better armor and weapons. However the Panzer unit in the game reflects the military philosophy of the Germans at that time which ends up giving you the player a speed bonus instead of attack and defense bonuses.

The AK-47 is not just a populur weapon because the soviets sold millions of them to 3rd world countries. Its a great technical marvel. The M-16 requires constant maintenance, and it does so for a reason. A captured M-16 won't work very well after a while. However, the quote I once heard was "you can throw an AK-47 behind a bush in a rice patty and leave it there for two years in the rain and then when you are attacked you can pull it out and you'll be guarenteed that it will still fire." Kalashnikov, the designer, made the parts on the gun so that it could take a lot of extreme wear and tear. The parts are suspended with a lot of play between them so that a grain of sand doesn't actually get in between them and cause weapon jams.

Don't discount soviet technology so quickly

Okay, so soviet weapons sure were good in the PAST

that dose NOTean that they represent what the near future has to offer

also, what dose technology that we have already pioneered have to do with with what the US plans to introduce in in the period of 2006-2010?

 

[steviejay]

Originally posted by jabancho
How about Foreign Legion? it will interesting to allow CIVS to recruit foreign lgionaries from other civs...

or even better, how about the ability to make unit culture flip? you leave a unit near a more culture enclined Civ's borders for too long and they decide to do a runner. it happened alot with single solders during the Cold War. imagine how annoying it would get if all of a sudden your Modern Armour Army decides that it would rather be French, or Chinese or whatever while you're at war with them, and all of a sudden it just does a 180 and rips into your undefended cities

 

[El Tee]

Originally posted by Hellfire
Well first off, a future era isn't as playable any more. Back in 1990, stealth was one of those things we considered just outside what we knew, and now its here. Plus now we have the internet. Much of what we thought of as the future era 13 years ago is now already here and some of it is covered in the modern era. Without getting to sci-fi, which I believe defeats the point of the game, I don't think a future era is possible.

However, Doesn't anyone think that the spaceship program is a little wacky? Things happen too fast. Also, we are missing techs from Civ2 that I'd like to see, specifically Fusion power. We don't have semi-conductors in real life, nor integrated SDI defenses, so maybe a few "looking forward" techs might make the game more attractive. Just add them to the current tech tree.

I'm more in line with Hellfire said. While it might be nice to play out to a future tech line because I like playing the game to the very end, after dominating the other tribes and keeping a couple alive, it doesn't apply to most games anymore. The only times the game wasn't really decided by the 1400's for me were on the two most difficult levels (deity and regent?) as generally I play on Monarch. That said, adding a few new techs to the modern era with units (like Landwarrior) would be great.

I also agree that the spaceship program is a little strange. By the time you can build the ship, and research the tech, it's almost like the entire end of the era the civ is building the spaceship as fast as the tech is researched...maybe I'm in the minority, but it feels way too rushed, IMO.

 

[Tarkeel]

think about how US is shooting down missiles, with a lasser ppl

Hello SDI Defence Small Wonder! And the current tests aren't really that accurate, or that effective.

Regarding the difference between US and Russian technology. It is said that during the space race, NASA developed a special pen that would work in zero-g (normal pens rely on gravity to push the ink out), while the russians just brought a pencil. More sophisticated isn't always better.

 

[Hellfire]

The whole pencil/pen thing is an old wives' tale that leaves out very important things that american scientists considered that Soviet scientists often did not. Keep in mind that the USSR did not care for their military/scientists/cosmonauts/etc as much as americans did.

Pencils can break, requiring sharpening again. pencils can also be erased, and erasings leave eraser dust.

In the blackness of deep space, with zero gravity, the last thing you need is a pencil shaving or tip to float into electronic components and mess everything up.

The apollo missions had enough to worry about. The engineers were not being overly geeky, they were just that damn smart.

 

[Vietcong]

the ak 47 is still beater then the m 16, the mig 29 is the beast fighter in the wrold. not the most manovible but the fastes in the world....

waht about the t- 80??? it is a very good tanks

many ppl say the us is to set the way for the modren military..

i think for a short whil it will, as america begins begins sliping into despotism (it realy allready is just the ppl dont know it). amercan power will grow. but after a short while the new "american world" will fall apart.

russia will revert back to communism with in 20-30 years. and the econiomic boom will cuse a suden rise in the (reborn) soviet union..
a second cold war will start. and this time the ussr will come out as the victor. and the wrold will not know another "great" war for 1000 years..

 

[El Tee]

Ummm...right....

I'll stay away from the US vs. USSR tech argument as this isn't the time or the place (I'm not even going to touch the whole USA slipping into Despotism/new Cold War theory).

As was mentioned before, in the earlier Civ titles, the modern techs were still US/Western-centric, and the modern military units in C3 are very US-based. While no one can accurately see ten, fifteen, twenty years into the future, it's possible, based on the plans, designs and strategy being implemented by the Pentagon right now to see what *most likely* will be fielded in the next five years (perhaps even ten). I'd be all for adding units that fit more along the lines of different countries (The Russian MA looks like a T-80/90, the British MA looks like a Challenger, etc.) but what the designers did was take a representative model (M1 series) for use as modern armor. And so, perhaps if they include a "LandWarrior" unit, the US example will be representative as other countries aren't quite as far along with the program.

I'm not saying I want hovertanks with Ion cannons, far from it - I just think military units that are close to becoming reality should be included. The same goes for city improvements.

 

[Hellfire]

I'm not sure about the MiG 29 being the fastest, i thought it was the most manueverable, but its still a technical rival to American Jets. I agreed with everything else, but I'm sorry, the US leads the way with the M1A1 tank. It absolutely has no equal, at least not yet.

Lets stick to the topic. Tech is on topic since it relates to the units of the game and you raised an excellent point about Soviet units compared to the US-centric representation of modern units.

However, I'm not going to get into a long drawn out argument over ideals about where you think the US is going and the rebirth of Communism and whatever else you think is going to happen to the world. That's for the off topic forum

 

[El Tee]

I second what Hellfire said - again. Back to the subject at hand.

What tech advances aren't in the game right now, that could be added (along with CIs or units) to provide more playability? I can't think of one off the top of my head (I have to refer to the tech tree to jog my memory) but I'm sure they are out there.

Any thoughts?

 

[Vietcong]

Originally posted by Hellfire
I'm not sure about the MiG 29 being the fastest, i thought it was the most manueverable, but its still a technical rival to American Jets. I agreed with everything else, but I'm sorry, the US leads the way with the M1A1 tank. It absolutely has no equal, at least not yet.

Lets stick to the topic. Tech is on topic since it relates to the units of the game and you raised an excellent point about Soviet units compared to the US-centric representation of modern units.

However, I'm not going to get into a long drawn out argument over ideals about where you think the US is going and the rebirth of Communism and whatever else you think is going to happen to the world. That's for the off topic forum

think?? or know??????

american soicity is evil but any way back to subjet

yes the m1 is the beast tank ther is.
but i have ideas that whold balance the battle filed(if realy used iit whold spell disasted for the "imperial" american forces.)
but i say taht the t-72 shold be used becus its more comon

 

[MarineCorps]

Originally posted by Vietcong



yes the m1 is the beast tank ther is.
but i have ideas that whold balance the battle filed(if realy used iit whold spell disasted for the "imperial" american forces.)
but i say taht the t-72 shold be used becus its more comon

In third world countries, yes. but as you said it's not the best MBT in the world.

 

[El Tee]

Originally posted by Vietcong


american soicity is evil but any way back to subjet

yes the m1 is the beast tank ther is.
but i have ideas that whold balance the battle filed(if realy used iit whold spell disasted for the "imperial" american forces.)
but i say taht the t-72 shold be used becus its more comon

If you're going to continue bashing America, go to OT. It's not really appropriate there; nationality bashing is not acceptable on CFC. I thought I had left it well enough alone, but I guess not. You can't go back on topic and fire off a barb later "distaste for imperial american forces."

The T-72 should not be used as the representative model for Modern Armor just because it is "more common."

What are your ideas for balancing the battlefield? And what does it have to do with future tech?

 

[Hellfire]

VietCong:
"I think." I'll admit I don't know for sure. I know for a fact that the russian MiGs were always rivals of American fighters, ever since Korea.

You might be onto something with regards to the T-series tanks, at least during WW2. The best medium tanks of the war were made by Russia at the time.

However, right now, America has the best tank, the M1A1. In fact it might be truly representative of "Modern Armor" in that it has the technical superiority overall and fits into that class of modern armor. English tanks I believe also fall into that class. One of the things to think about is does the T-80 truly break the barrier to cross over into that class of vehicles? Thats important because Civ is about tech too. You could have 50 sherman tanks and 5 M1A1s. Sherman tanks are definitely not modern armor (and calling them Armor is a bit of an overstatement, compared to Panzers of the time). You wouldn't represent modern armor units with sherman tanks would you?

But if you do notice, guerrillas do have AK-47s, so there is representation. The game does seem to be a little western based because of the knights, "medieval infantry", and longbowmen, and musketmen which are very european, and the riflemen and infantry and all the modern units which are US centric.

I guess the lesson here is two fold. #1 perhaps each civ should have civ specific pictures for each unit. They did attempt to do this for the buildings, and you'll notice some city improvements are culture specific (based on subcultures). #2 perhaps more study should be done on other civilizations and instead of using only the united states as an example for progression we should look to other civs after 1900.

Admittedly, though, information on American units is practically shoved down our throats in the US. Hunting for more information, especially on Soviet tech, is not as easy except slanted intelligence received from our government.

I would recommend you get to work on a modpack to change the units to soviet centered units and prove to firaxis how easy it is to be less centric on western culture!

 

[Vietcong]

culter bassed units is a good idea!!!


i tihnk idea needs its own culture.. haveing aisan bildings seems a bit strange to me...
america needs to change to erpupean in the mid age.

erpoiean nations chold have more epropina base looking units
america and othe navitve american natoons chold get us based units
asia chold get us based units in modrean era.

the mid east nations chold get savoet units, allso the fallowing aisan nations will get soviet units insted of us in modren age. china and mongolia
and of corse russia will get soviet based art..

 

[NightThatSaysNI]

Veitcong whats with ur US bashing?
I like the way the units are set up now becuz i rarly even get to Rocket Artillery before i crush my surrounding opponets.It would be a good idea to have civ specific units but u can just download most of em' from the unit creation forum.If they had the T-80 it would have to be cheaper then the M1A1-Abrams but with stats reduced.The F-15 isn't any better than the Su-27 in air combat (it mainly depends on the piolit)I really think they should have a Attack Chopper like the Apache or the Russian version (I can't remember the name but i know they used it against the Afgani's)Then LandWarrior is a good idea but what would it be an evilution of the Marine and Paratrooper together?On the idea of the new future era I think if they added it it should be optional

 

[El Tee]

Originally posted by NightThatSaysNI
Then LandWarrior is a good idea but what would it be an evilution of the Marine and Paratrooper together?On the idea of the new future era I think if they added it it should be optional

Sort of OT, but:

Maybe LandWarrior could be a stand-alone unit that gains attack/defend bonus when placed in an Army with other LandWarrior units (communications bonus?). Perhaps they could be air-mobile as well, but Marines should maintain the amphib bonus alone (exc. Berserk) to make them more "unique."

Perhaps with the addition of satellites in C3C (a good idea considering the modern age doesn't get as much playtime with most civvers) the unit could get some bonus there as well? Just some random thoughts.

 

[MarineCorps]

Originally posted by NightThatSaysNI
I really think they should have a Attack Chopper like the Apache or the Russian version (I can't remember the name but i know they used it against the Afgani's)

It's called the Hind, not something you want to be facing.

 

[D.Shaffer]

I'll say this.

I do NOT support the inclusion of a Future Tech era into the main game...

I DO, however, support the inclusion of a Future Tech era into the scenario editor. This way, people who want it can use it, those who dont can 'switch it off'

 

[Cartouche Bee]

I think that if you are first to research every single tech, that you should win the game! Just like any other victory condition, I'm not against a future tech era though, in a modified game.

 

[Xen]

nah, all the other victory conditions, if achieved in real life have huge implications for the nation that dose it, achiving all the techs dosent