[NFP] I Sent a Crash Report to 2K/Firaxis and All Got in Return was Some Existential Questions

[InsidiousMage]

So, Civ6 has kind of been a mess on consoles recently and the Firaxis social media team has been telling people to send in crash reports so they can fix the constant crashing on consoles. I sent some bug reports earlier during NFP but the experience was so frustrating I basically vowed never to do it again. The most recent update saw a noticeable improvement in stability on the PS4, for me anyway, so I decided to send in a crash report since Firaxis seemed to working on the problem. Eventually I got this reply...

A little confused I replied with this...

Sorry if this is above your pay grade, and for any rudeness, but the Firaxis Twitter account has been telling people to send crash reports in response to players mentioning the constant crashes on console (here, here, and here). So, that's what I am doing. I went back to the post-win save I had for this game to try and take a video and, fortunately, the game did crash again. However, unfortunately, I found out that the PS4 can only take videos after the fact and in game so once the game crashes I lose the ability to take a video of the crash. I'm a literally doing what Firaxis told me to do only to find out that I've wasted my time because I need to do something that is literally impossible for me to do (which is not your fault). I can view the videos the console takes when it sends its crash report to Sony but I don't otherwise have access to them. Maybe Firaxis could ask Sony for them, I'm sure they have plenty.

So, if you could pass this little conundrum along to someone who could maybe do something about it that would be appreciated and thanks for letting me know to not even bother with sending in any more crash reports.

Thanks for your and time and, again, apologies for any rudeness.

Not the nicest but I've been frustrated with the game recently and this made it seem like Firaxis was dodging the problem, not working to actually fix it. I got this in reply...

This exchange has left me with some questions, in order from most mundane to to most existential.

1) I assume the last sentence in the first paragraph of the last email means that unless there is video then the crash reports are too much trouble for 2K/Firaxis to deal with? Seems like the opposite message that the social media team is putting out.

2) What are people saying to the customer service reps and why are people so awful?

3) Do 2K/Firaxis not know how the PlayStation, and presumably other consoles, work? The Switch is the same with video, after the fact and not on the home screen. Surely they should know this if they are releasing console games, especially 2K. Why hasn't this been communicated to the CS reps?

4) Do 2K/Firaxis expect me to jury rig something together to presumably record and the edit hours of gameplay on my cellphone or do they expect me to try and play the game one handed while recording with the other?

5) At what point is this turning into an absurd hostage situation where 2K/Firaxis are demanding bizarre unpaid labor in return for fixing a game I already paid a bunch of money for?

Any help with answering any of these questions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Yig]

I had a horsehockey experience with them too recently. Submitted a detailed report explaining the problem, how to replicate it, and provided a screenshot and they asked me to explain it again. I asked them to look at the original submission they asked me to repeat it again. I just ignored them and they closed it. What is the point of a submission system if they cant use the data you give them? Its useless. They even told me to clear my cache when the ticket submission system even tells you is impossible on a ps4 to begin with... which they should certainly know. Such a waste of time.

 

[fy00sh]

5) At what point is this turning into an absurd hostage situation where 2K/Firaxis are demanding bizarre unpaid labor in return for fixing a game I already paid a bunch of money for?

I actually submitted a ticket for the fact that Vietnam's city sprawl defaults to the western european architecture style when surrounding a district, instead of using the unique Vietnamese style that they specifically made when adding Vietnam to the game. That architecture style indicated the code is broken somehow, it's used a placeholder for when the game can't figure out what other style it's supposed to use - I know this from using a mod to make architecture styles more diverse, that's what it looks like when the code breaks. I'm pretty sure base game also has this problem for the Cree still.
Anyways, I point out in the ticket submission that literally all you have to do is play a normal unmodded game and get to classical era as vietnam, or do a medieval start and start making a district next to the city center, and you'll see it. I even point out that you can see it in Vietnam's First Look trailer on their official YouTube channel.
In the response, they asked me to unsub from all my mods (not disable, unsub, so I'd have to redownload all my mods afterwards) just to verify that it happens in base game. When it's in. the. First. Look.
I actually considered doing it, but then I noticed that the architecture mod I use updated and fixed the issue completely. And I realized - did I really wanna hold off on playing the game until I'm sure they aren't just gonna ask me to do a follow up verification, and unsub from & resub to all my mods again? Did I really want to do whatever they want me to do to verify this problem, when it's visible in the First Look? What burden of proof will I be expected to clear? Do I even care that much anymore?
And no, I didn't care anymore. It's a really minor issue, I'm probably the person who cares the most about this. Who'd benefit from me pursuing this? The employee who messaged me would just have their time wasted on an issue that they'd know is super minor. I'd be sending a bunch of time and effort fixing an issue that's already fixed on my end. And most players probably wouldn't even notice or care.

And yknow, I feel like I'd even come to that conclusion even if it was a major issue, like the game crashing frequently. An issue that major? It surely must be known already by whoever these tickets get forwarded to, and they're either not passing it on to the programmers or at some point they're deciding it's not worth fixing (at least right now) or they just don't know how. In any case, I don't see how jumping thru all their hoops is gonna make it any more likely the issue gets fixed. Maybe I'm just being a doomer abt it but that's how i see it. It sounds like the powers that be are demanding that bug reports not get looked into unless the customers personally provide their own proof that this is a replicable issue, and that seems like a really flawed standard to me.

To answer the question I quoted: I think that point is when either A) meeting the burden of proof they're putting forward would take more than like 3 or so minutes of work or B) it would be harder for you to meet the burden of proof, than for them to just test it themselves. In my example, they've literally already filmed and uploaded to YouTube their own proof that the architecture is broken. And in your issue, the proof they're asking for is just an unreasonable time-commitement for you.

 

[InsidiousMage]

It surely must be known already by whoever these tickets get forwarded to, and they're either not passing it on to the programmers or at some point they're deciding it's not worth fixing (at least right now) or they just don't know how.

I honestly feel like Firaxis does know what the problem is, is working on it, but it's so, lets go with complex or something similar, that its going to take a while to fix but they can't or don't want to say the game is kind of broken on consoles and a fix is coming but they don't know when.

 

[Yig]

I took a different approach. They told me they closed my ticket, I emailed them back complaining about how crappy their support system is and why it is crappy (making sure to point out they are not paying me) and they emailed me back thanking me and saying they would escalate my ticket to the appropriate people. Now weather this is an actual appropriate person or a frog in a tank tonguing a tablet app that makes it look like flies are on the screen is yet to be seen.

 

[PiR]

See my experience here...
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/what-happens-when-we-report-a-bug-here.666334/#post-16004211

This is the kind of detail I provide:

• https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...t-didnt-regrow-after-fire-when-it-did.666065/
• https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/1-0-8-4-minor-bug-in-congress-you-may-stuck-the-game.666103/
• https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/how-can-a-barbarian-settler-be-in-an-ai-encampment.665273/
  
• https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ai-regularly-say-things-unaligned-with-how-they-feel.665524/

Trust me, I work in IT, such complete bug reports are the dreams of devs.

For the first 2, there is absolutely 0 effort required from their part to acknowledge, reproduce and a very little effort is required to fix it (although the first one should take less than 5 minutes to a junior dev).

And yet the support closed all of them and only interacts with them with the first one I opened. They even told me they found a workaround, to reload the previous turn. I replied this worked only for the second of the above list, not for the rest. Did I try it out to check? Of course not, I know it. Why would I waste time checking? I think we just have

2) What are people saying to the customer service reps and why are people so awful?

Probably insults after being frustrating with all this? Not my case but I could picture angry people doing it.

In your case, I would load the save that you know will crash, film that with your phone, film the crash, and send them the video. Just to push the ball back on their side. But I saw people who had given up, so it's up to you.

 

[InsidiousMage]

In your case, I would load the save that you know will crash, film that with your phone, film the crash, and send them the video. Just to push the ball back on their side. But I saw people who had given up, so it's up to you.

The haven't gotten back to me after they sent the request for the phone recording so I'm not going to bother. If people are curious these are the details I gave them.

Game crashed on turn 251 after I answered an AI's agenda statement.
Game crashed on turn 261 at the start of the turn.
Game crashed on turn 271 during the AI's turn, again twice on turn 274 and then again on turn 276.
Game crashed on after I resumed the game after the crash on turn 271.
Game crashed on turn 278 at the start of the turn.

Playing as Kublai Khan China on a huge continents map with 21 city-states, abundant resources, balanced start position, standard game speed, Emperor difficulty with no turn limit and Secret Societies and Monopolies & Corporations game modes on. The other civilizations in the game were Ethiopia, Japan, Maori, Canada, Phoenicia, Russia, India led by Gandhi, Scotland, Netherlands, Inca and Scythia.

Like I said above, giving them anything else is going to take some actual work on my part and I think that is absurd given that all but one of the crashes literally involved me doing nothing and I had no control over the game at the point they happened to occur.

 

[PiR]

Ok I didn't understand this was random then yes I wouldn't bother either.

 

[HiRezAudio]

This might at long last now be fixed - it's mentioned in the February Patch notes, so that's something.
I wish that 2K would stop the nonsense though - constantly demanding videos on a game where I just don't have enough hands.
Will try the PS4 again over the weekend and post back

 

[HiRezAudio]

Not much to report in the way of success, sadly.
Firstly my history had gone - no previous wins recorded in the Hall of Infamy.
I started a new game on a Shuffle map as Trajan, Standard Map & low sea levels, Emperor difficulty & Secret Societies, Barbarian Camps & Corporations & Monopolies game modes enabled.
It crashed in setup 3 times whilst getting thoroughly sick of the intro speech.
Got the usual generic PS4 Bluescreen, with an option to send video & screenshots in with Crash Report (who gets these reports & screenies? Apparently not 2K the way they keep demanding ever more of them)

So far from being solved, things have now apparently got even worse.
I'll try again when I can face up to the inevitability of the crashing.

 

[PiR]

Ask for refund.

 

[HiRezAudio]

Ask for refund.

I did.
They tell me that because I started with the base game, and added the 2 expansions and then the NFP that I cannot get one as it has been too long now.
I am still thinking about what to hit these fools with next - thankfully my PC version functions correctly - well, mostly correctly and fine once you factor in all the known bugs but that's a different story as at least it is playable unlike my PS4 version, which has not been for almost 6 months now. The problem with getting refunded is simply this - have you ever actually read the terms & conditions we sign up to? It basically states it is not guaranteed that the game will work at all when you get right down to it and that everything is on a best effort with absolutely no liability whatsoever for anything caused ever by the game, running it or even trying to run it (presumably apoplectic fits brought on by pure frustration are what is meant here, although it is hard to tell).

I think a full refund is where I am now at as far as 2K on PS4 goes. It's not their only clusterf### either.

 

[InsidiousMage]

Ask for refund.

Sony basically never gives out refunds, Cyberpunk 2077 being the big exception because of the way CDPR handled that whole mess.

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[PiR]

Sorry then... Find another game to play and try it again in a few years...
Personnally I used to always play games long after they were released, mostly because I thought my PC wouldn't hold up to the specs, but also because then for a cheaper price I would have something totally stable. It's nice to be part of the civfanatics community at the moment when things are released, but honestly I'm glad I bought Civ 4 on DVD with all expansions so that I could enjoy it at its full potential immediately.

 

[HiRezAudio]

Sorry then... Find another game to play and try it again in a few years...
Personnally I used to always play games long after they were released, mostly because I thought my PC wouldn't hold up to the specs, but also because then for a cheaper price I would have something totally stable. It's nice to be part of the civfanatics community at the moment when things are released, but honestly I'm glad I bought Civ 4 on DVD with all expansions so that I could enjoy it at its full potential immediately.

I will stick with the PC version - at least it works (basically)