I want my machine gun!

[svv]

I've been thinking about the machine gun, and I can see how it would be a really useful unit for a long time. It has a benefits over the infantry, being(1) extra first strike, (2) extra 25% vs. gunpowder units, and (3) slightly cheaper.

Even though they can't attack, they're pretty useful in a bunch of situations:

- protecting your siege units and others in your Stack of Doom, especially from attacks by muskets/rifles/infantry
- garrsioning cities, and
- protecting wounded units trapped in the open

Somebody posted here once that they've never used a machine gun in combat. I have, but I have also found many situations where the AI was so afraid of the machine guns that they wouldn't even take them on. They're particularly great against swarms of weaker units, because their first strikes and high strength allows them to beat a lot of attacks without taking significant damage.

Problem is, you can't build them for long enough. In my current game I was just building a bunch of machine guns to protect my frontier cities and my SOD before I took on an AI opponent with whom I had a long border. However, as soon as I got rocketry, all my build orders for machine guns got turned into SAM infantry - which sucks in a major way in that these are (1) WEAKER than Infantry and machine guns, and (2) cost MORE than infantry and machine guns.

SAM infantry are great in their role. If my opponent had air units (which they don't), I'd ALSO like to have a couple SAM infantry along.

But I'd still want my machine gun!

 

[ZB2]

hopefully in a expansion we'll see the CIV3C Tow Infantry, for which the Machine gun could upgrade too

 

[mice]

Even though they can't attack, they're pretty useful in a bunch of situations:

- protecting your siege units and others in your Stack of Doom, especially from attacks by muskets/rifles/infantry
- garrsioning cities, and
- protecting wounded units trapped in the open

Add to that pillaging. A machine gun can pillage all on it's own, and takes a lot for the AI to kill it.

 

[50_dollar_bag]

As a machine gun is classed as a siege weapon, does that make it immune to collateral?

 

[PMabey]

^^^ Yes it does.

 

[50_dollar_bag]

^^^excellent. I always build them anyway, they just seem to be the first defender most of the time so I've never noticed their immunity before.

 

[malekithe]

As a machine gun is classed as a siege weapon, does that make it immune to collateral?

^^^ Yes it does.

Though, keep in mind, because they are classified as siege weapons, machine guns are absolutely worthless against artillery (which get +50% vs. siege weapons).

 

[tycoonist]

i agree that machine guns are an awesome weapon: i sometimes put off sam and infantry just to hold onto them if i am defending alot

 

[cabert]

I build a lot (well, 1 per city + 1 per stack) MG myself.
The trick is to not prioritize rocketry.
You don't need to anyway .
For a space race, computer>fiber optics is better (welcome to the internet age).
For domination, combustion, flight and radio is better (bombers!)
For diplo, mass media is better (no kidding? you need the UN to be voted king of the world?)
For cultural, wait, hum, rocketry is researched in 25.000 turns...

conclusion : If you know you want MG, just don't prioritize rocketry.

 

[RIcs]

I got MG too early.. that my enemy have stacks of Calvary, and have a fest on my MG..... And Rifteman just do way too much better than MG in that time.
Str 14, Double CG.
Str 18, Double Drill.... just not enough... I throw in a medic too, which proved to be a bad idea.

 

[svv]

The trick is to not prioritize rocketry.
You don't need to anyway .

yeah, I screwed up. I didn't realize that would obsolete my MGs. Plus, I was avoiding computers because I had Angkor Wat and Spiral Minaret.

Live and learn.

 

[gunkulator]

I got MG too early.. that my enemy have stacks of Calvary, and have a fest on my MG..... And Rifteman just do way too much better than MG in that time.
Str 14, Double CG.
Str 18, Double Drill.... just not enough... I throw in a medic too, which proved to be a bad idea.

You should always stack a Rifleman with your MGs. Riflemen defeat Cavalry easily however they are easily beaten by Grenadiers and Infantry. MGs are good against Riflemen, Grenadiers and Infantry.

 

[Morfydd]

hopefully in a expansion we'll see the CIV3C Tow Infantry, for which the Machine gun could upgrade too

Sam is better than tow <tow is rarely if ever used these days its a silly system some idiot came up with for wire guided rockets ..silly in that it takes a 4 man crew to set up and at least one has to stay out in the open to controll the missle to target oh yeah and has to see the target wheich means the target can probably see him and use soem simple direct fire method of making you go away casuing the tow to normally crash into soem other target than them <like the ground>>

Sam or sidwinder troops = fire and forget ..they should not be an upgrade to either infantry or machine
gunner as both those are still used in every modern army...

where the tow system was removed from nearly every active unit after only 10 years of service

 

[Morfydd]

hence the reason the Tow missel system was removed from most active service not long after it was implemented

 

[Gwil]

Strange that, according to Wonkypedia, the "BGM-71 TOW" is

The TOW was first produced in 1970 and is the most widely used anti-tank guided missile in the world. Current production TOWs can penetrate all currently known tank armor.

It's also operated by dozens of countries, and features heavily in games other than Civ IV as the ultimate "tank busting" weapon (see Operation Flashpoint)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BGM-71_TOW
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire-guided

 

[ZB2]

not to mention it would be a good unit for machine gun to upgrade to, as the TOW team in Civ3C were defensive units, and to make it Civ4 like, give it a bonus against mechanized infantry + tanks

The TOW 2 missile system was deployed in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom, which constituted the first operational firing of the TOW 2B missile. TOW rockets are used in anti-armour, anti-bunker, anti-fortification AND anti-amphibious landing roles, and TOW is in service with over 45 armed forces and is integrated on over 15,000 ground, vehicle and helicopter platforms worldwide.

hardly say their not a sufficeint element to be excluded in this 'not supposed to be realistic' game of Civilization.