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ICS as India?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Dreadnought, Aug 23, 2012.

  1. Dreadnought

    Dreadnought Deity

    Mar 15, 2004
    New Jersey, USA
    Howdy folks,

    I've heard rumors about ICS as India being very strong if you know what you are doing.

    Anyone have any ideas how to mitigate the early unhappiness? Should I finish liberty asap for a Great Prophet for a happiness based Religion? When do I begin founding cities? How does India compare to someone like the Maya for ICS?

    Thanks in advance.
  2. Tich

    Tich Prince

    Aug 8, 2012
    India has no religious bonus, no growth bonus (ok, that's debatable, but it's not a growth bonus in the same way that Siam's is for example), struggles to churn out cities early on (due to happiness) and its UB doesn't hit until the mid game. The only way to make ICS work with India would be to go wide and tall, which probably means a Tradition opener that leads into Liberty in the mid game. I assume that you would focus on gold acquisition from luxury resources and Trading Posts to fuel Maritime city states (for growth purposes) and Mercantile ones (to ensure that your empire remains happy and can keep growing).

    To put it bluntly, that all seems ambitious at best. Mayans have an early science and faith advantage, which is critical for getting an early religion going in order to get those happiness bonuses rolling out. Also, since building the National College (NC) is Hell when you're ICSing, the early science boost helps to offset your inability to build it. ICSing is also best employed when you're warmongering, and that's not India's typical strong point. Its UU is strong, there's no question about that, but ultimately it's a very defensive civ that wants to grow big and win peacefully if possible. Mayans can churn out some Atlatlists early on, upgrades them to Composite Bowmen/Crossbows as time passes, and rush Iron Working + Steel or Physics to get a serious military tech lead. From there it can mass (Long)swords and bows, support them with Trebuchets (or Cannons, depends what stage you're at) and start taking other civs out to keep growing. India, who doesn't have that science boost (nor the faith boost to speed its religion up) just plain can't employ that tactic nearly as well.

    My question to you is why would you force an ICS plan with India? Why not go for some 4 city Tradition opener, get your happiness high, start growing like mad, and spam trading posts and whatnot to support a Science win? I don't think India is a particularly strong civ, I mean he just seems much worse than say Siam, but I really don't see how you could ever ICS effectively with them. The early-game happiness hit just seems insanely difficult to overcome, since it isn't offset until you have what? 6 citizens or something? That's a tall order in my mind. Staying happy to grow enough to hit those 6 citizens is ambitious at best in my mind.

    Who did you hear this from exactly? Unless there's some bug or exploit that I'm just completely unaware of, India seems like one of the single worst ICSers in the game (maybe even the worst). Maybe your friend was trolling you?
  3. Tachii

    Tachii Procrastinator

    Jul 29, 2012
    Ontario, Canada
    I don't want to just say "impossible" but it sounds impossible. The UA cripples as it is even if you're going for the 4 city Tradition approach, ICS would probably kill the happiness for the entire early-mid and maybe even late game. Even a healthy religion probably won't curb the damage.
  4. WiseGreen

    WiseGreen Warlord

    Jul 11, 2011
  5. Trickster7135

    Trickster7135 Prince

    Aug 30, 2010
    954, Florida
    India can go wide, but it can never do a proper ICS game, especially since ICS depends on having 3-4 population cities for most of the game.
  6. Syntax Error

    Syntax Error Prince

    Oct 14, 2010
    If you define ICS as "lots of size 3-5 cities you settled yourself", then you can forget it. India breaks even at 6 pop when it comes to happiness. Lower than that and it's a loss when compared to other civs.
  7. AlienFromBeyond

    AlienFromBeyond Chieftain

    Sep 22, 2010
    The one thing I feel India has going for it in ICS is that Mughal Forts combo very well with Neuschwanstein. But hoping you get that is asking to be screwed with 1 turn left on building it.
  8. slapshot2119

    slapshot2119 Chieftain

    Feb 28, 2010
    Something that I've been wondering about India - maybe someone can clarify.
    India has 1/2 the unhappiness per pop point, so it's 1 unhappy per 2 pops instead of 1:1
    Monarchy(trad) gives +1 happiness for every two pop points in the capital.
    So if it's only 1 unhappiness for every 2 pops in the capital, but they gain +1 happiness for every 2 pops in the capital...
    Doesn't that make the population in India's capital happiness free?
  9. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Deity

    Oct 8, 2002
    Nope, it's -1 unhappiness for every two pop points in the capital.

    They combine to give 0.25 :c5unhappy: per pop, which means India loses half the benefit of the policy.

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