Idea: Expanded Collateral Damage / Siege Combat model

[Morten Blaabjerg]

Basically, I am getting tired of the way it takes 200 years in Civ4 to conquer a single city, despite repeated attacks a few archer units is capable of withstanding huge armies. I think siege equipment should be very important in battles, but I feel with the present system, they are vastly overpowered. It can be virtually impossible to conquer any city (even unwalled) before you get catapults.

I think the collateral damage system opens a way to change the combat system as to make war both more devastating and put more emphasis on walls and fortresses. So here is my proposal, which I will try to implement as soon as I find the time for it. If you like it and would like to try and implement it for yourself, please do

The model tries to make stack combat perhaps even more dangerous than at present and emphasizes the presence of fortresses, walls and castles. Here goes :

* All units provide collateral damage to a stack. Some do more than others (Archers and Gunpowder units give the most). This means a city will fall quicker if attacked repeatedly with superior units.

* A fortress, walls or a castle protects from all collateral damage, until its defenses have reached zero, at which point they are destroyed in the game. Fortresses are removed from the map, walls disappear etc.

* Catapults, Cannon and Artillery and similar siege units can bombard defenses, or attack as normal (giving collateral damage as usual). They are even more important now when taking a walled city, but may not be needed if the city is not walled.

* Walls in cities raise defenses to +100%, a castle with additional +50%. Fortresses provide +100% defense bonus. All cumulative with terrain and normal unit promotions. In earlier civ games a units defenses was tripled with city walls, but I think +100% will be adequate, as the units have several other paths of bonus'es in themselves.

* Workers can contruct fortresses while in hostile territory. Historically, castles were very often built offensively, as staging points for control of a hostile area.

* Build cost for early units should be halved, to make it easier to withstand the losses from combats, which will likely come quicker and more devastating.

 

[Impaler[WrG]]

I'm not shure if the protection from Collateral damage can be done, it would definatly require some Python scripting and I suspect it would be complex, likewise on destroying Defense improvments, the reduced defense modifier from bombardment kind of already reflects this so I dont realy see why its nessary.

I had some ideas of my own that were a little similar to yours

A fort like improvment called "Siege Works" obviously buildable in enemy territory, gives Siege weapons a 100% withdrawl chance when they are in it, thus alowing them to attack with impunity. Given enough time any city would be worn down as long as you can maintain a Siege of it.

EarthWorks a Defensive Building giving +25% Defence except vs Armor, represents the Civil war era fortification that were based on massive earth burms supported by cannons. Without Brick or stone they could not be blasted apart like a vertical wall/castle would be.

 

[Morten Blaabjerg]

Maybe it can be pulled off without too much scripting. I can live with only being able to raise the defensive values of fortresses and walls.

Do you know if the defensive bonus (how high it is) affects the impact of collateral damage? I suspect you won't be able to give much collateral damage, when the unit's defenses are very high?

If this is correct, then it is possible to keep bombarding the walls a crucial step when attacking walled cities/fortresses, and not so necessary, when attacking a city without walls.

Maybe I will have to tamper with the cultural bonuses too, as I think they make walls less necessary.

Do you know how easy it is to make it possible for workers to work in enemy territory?

I like your idea with the Siege Works. The attacker has an easier time retreating, than the defending party has, so it makes sense.

 

[Morten Blaabjerg]

Does anyone have any pointers as to where in the XML files to mod the ability of forts being constructed outside your cultural borders?

 

[Impaler[WrG]]

Probably under Terrain Improvments, humm no wait just looked and I dont see any boolean for buildable inside/outside cultural borders. Routes like Roads and Railroads are the only thing buildable outside your borders and they are kept in a different file under Misc. I think its coded someware else that improvments and in-borders only and routes are build anyware.

 

[Morten Blaabjerg]

I tried looking myself, and I believe you're right. It must be defined on a more global level.

Any other ideas as to where that may be?