Ideal Civ Listing for base game and initial DLCs

[jsciv69]

Well, apparently you're a sympathizer of modern civs.

But I think your list leaves Europe and Africa little represented.

Europe:
Ireland- Michael Collins
France- Maximilien Robespierre
England- William Pitt
Germany- Otto I
Spain- Isabella
Rome- Constantine
Romania- Vlad the Impaler
Greece
Africa:
Egypt- Nasser
Ethiopia
South Africa- Mandella
Carthage- Dido
Algeria

 

[jsciv69]

I think he was listing future DLC he wanted, not his choices for base game. But even then, I see some Lebbannon as an odd choice.

I agree Lebanon may seem an unexpected choice(or perhaps just a personal one) since it's only been independent for just over 70 years. But the history of the land and people go back to the very beginning of Civilization itself. Of course those were the times of the Phoenician city-states. I think a Lebanese Civ would consolidate those city-states into one society of many as it is today. Youssef Bey Karam was a couragous warrior who stood against the brutal Ottoman Turks in the mid-late 19th Century. There's a statue of him on his horse in the village of Ehden. He is revered by many.

 

[Civciv5]

The Trung sisters only briefly ruled a small section of the Northern part of modern Vietnam and a small part of the South of China. Vietnam was a very small nation then, and not wholly inside the borders modern nation. And three years is not that much. Also, the comaparrisson to Joan still stands; they were brave, but ultimately were defeated. There are other Vietnamese rulers a lot more successful than that. Nguyễn Huệ didn't rule long either, but more was accomplished in this time, and his reign didn't end in defeat. Le Loi, Gia Long and others I also think would be better choices.

The Trung Sisters are national heroes of Vietnam, while not the best leaders, they are the symbolic leaders who liberated their country, much like Boudica. If Vietnam is included, they would be my first choice as leaders. Also, their leaderscreen would be awesome.

Khri ma lod (Thrimalo) was Empress regent of Tibet as the widow of the emperor and mother and grandmother of the next ones. She wielded all the power in the empire and basically controlled them as puppet emperors. After her sons's death in 704, she likely ruled as Empress regnant until her death in 712, which is alluded to in the Tibetan Annals, as her grandson was not coronated until 712.

Khri ma lod was a strong ruler who promoted Buddhism, expanded the empire and tried to forge an alliance with Wu Zetian, who she likely was inspired by.

During her reign, the Tarim Basin was conquered, until Empress Wu retook it some decades larer. Khri ma lod also averted a Chinese occupation of Tibet.

She tried to make peace with Empress Wu, who refused to negotiate. Nevertheless, she sent one of her relatives to Khri ma lod's grandson as a bride. She also tried to invade either Nanzhao or another kingdon in Southern China, which led to her son's death.

Overall, she was a strong ruler who laid the base Tibetan Golden Age, which reached its epitome in 763, when Tibet caused the ultimate humiliation for China by occupying a large part of the Tang Dynasty, most importantly, their capital, Chang'an.

 

[SMcM]

The Trung Sisters are national heroes of Vietnam, while not the best leaders, they are the symbolic leaders who liberated their country, much like Boudica. If Vietnam is included, they would be my first choice as leaders. Also, their leaderscreen would be awesome.

Khri ma lod (Thrimalo) was Empress regent of Tibet as the widow of the emperor and mother and grandmother of the next ones. She wielded all the power in the empire and basically controlled them as puppet emperors. After her sons's death in 704, she likely ruled as Empress regnant until her death in 712, which is alluded to in the Tibetan Annals, as her grandson was not coronated until 712.

Khri ma lod was a strong ruler who promoted Buddhism, expanded the empire and tried to forge an alliance with Wu Zetian, who she likely was inspired by.

During her reign, the Tarim Basin was conquered, until Empress Wu retook it some decades larer. Khri ma lod also averted a Chinese occupation of Tibet.

She tried to make peace with Empress Wu, who refused to negotiate. Nevertheless, she sent one of her relatives to Khri ma lod's grandson as a bride. She also tried to invade either Nanzhao or another kingdon in Southern China, which led to her son's death.

Overall, she was a strong ruler who laid the base Tibetan Golden Age, which reached its epitome in 763, when Tibet caused the ultimate humiliation for China by occupying a large part of the Tang Dynasty, most importantly, their capital, Chang'an.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on the Trung sisters. Nanuye, the region they ruled, had its capital in modern China for a long time, so was not exactly Vietnam as we know it today anyway.

Edit: Also, they didn't really liberate their country (only managing to hold off the Chinese for three years as you yourself said). Their lack of success, for me, is good enough reason for them not to be included.

My question still remains for Khri Ma Lod; what is the source of your information?

 

[dagriggstar]

Feel like I'm missing a big one.....And yes, am aware of not having Greece (Initially to be city-states)

Ancient (4) - Egypt, Rome, India, Persia
Medieval (6) - China, Arabia, Mali, Indonesia, Mongolia, Yemen**
Early Modern (5) - France, England, Ottomans, Siam, Spain**
Modern (5) - America, Russia, Japan, Germany, Brazil**
Pre-Colombian America* (2) - Inca, Maya**
* Important to include, but difficult to put into a time category. I imagine would have ancient era elements to them however
** DLC's

America/Africa (6) - Egypt, Inca, Maya**, America, Mali, Brazil**
Middle East (5) - India, Arabia, Ottomans, Persia, Yemen**
East Asia (5) - China, Indonesia, Siam, Japan, Mongolia**
Europe (6) - Rome, France, England, Russia, Germany, Spain**
** DLC's

Leader choices
Egypt - Hatsheput
Rome - Equally happy with many choices
India - Ashoka
Persia - Cyrus
China - Taizong
Arabia - Umar
Mali - Mansa Musa
Indonesia - Tribhuwana
Yemen - Arwa al-Sulayhi
Mongolia - Genghis Khan
France - Louis XIV
England - Victoria
Ottomans - Equally happy with a few choices
Siam - Equally happy with a few choices
Spain - Isabella
America - FDR
Russia - Lenin
Japan - Meji ideally, but I'm not sure it's possible...
Germany - Equally happy with many choices
Brazil - Equally happy with a few choices
Inca - Topa Inca Yupanqui
Maya - Equally happy with many choices

 

[Bast]

America
Aztec
Inca instead of Brazil
Kongo
Egypt
Ghana
Arabia
India
Burma
China
Japan
Russia
Mongolia
Germany
France
Greece
Rome
England

DLC

Spain
Scythia
Polynesia
Persia

Africa - 3 Civilizations (1 in Northern Africa, 1 in western sub-saharan and 1 sub-saharan)
Americas - 3 Civilizations (1 each in North, Central and South America)
Europe - 7 Civilizations (4 in Western Europe, 2 in Southern Europe, 1 in Eastern Europe)
Eurasia - 1 Civilizations (1 in Central Asia)
Asia - 7 Civilizations (3 in East Asia, 1 in Southeast Asia, 1 in South Asia, 2 in West Asia)
Oceania - 1 Civilization

 

[Civciv5]

My question still remains for Khri Ma Lod; what is the source of your information?

Various sources all over the Internet, mainly obscure ones plus sources on her son and grandson's reign.

I also created her Wikipedia page.

 

[SMcM]

Various sources all over the Internet, mainly obscure ones plus sources on her son and grandson's reign.

I also created her Wikipedia page.

My main problem is that though she may have been a competent leader, she wouldn't see to be the best choice for Tibetan leader, with Songstan Gampo seeming to me to be the best choice. Not the worst choice either though, and I wouldn't mind her being in the game.

 

[MinnesotaNation]

Here we go, my first post here, my ideal choices for civs and their leader, from first 18 to every single DLC country after. I'll only include up to my top 3 leader choices for each country (if there's more than 3), even though I'd like to list more

1- America: Teddy Roosevelt, Washington, Lincoln
2- France: Napoleon, Louis XIV, de Gaulle
3- England: Churchill, Victoria, Elizabeth I
4- Colombia: Simon Bolivar
5- China: I'll admit, I don't know enough about Chinese leaders to really chose, so I'm just going to properly pick, I'll just put down the Kangxi Emperor from Qing
6- Japan: Meiji, Toyotomi Hideyoshi, Tokugawa Ieyasu
7- Khmer: Javavarman VII
8- Inca: Pachacuti
9- Aztecs: Montezuma I
10- Arabia: Saladin, Umar, Harun al-Rashid
11- India: Ashoka, Akbar I, Shah Jahan
12- Germany: Bismarck, Frederick Barbarossa, Otto I
13- Rome: Julius Caesar, Augustus Caesar, Trajan
14- Greece: Alexander, Pericles, Eleftherios Venizelos
15- Russia: Peter I, Catherine II, Alexander I of Russia
16- Persia: Darius, Khosrow I, Abbas I
17- Mongols: Genshis Khan
18- Egypt: Ramses II, Hatshephut

DLC:
Europe:
Bulgaria: Simeon the Great
Serbia/Yugoslavia: Stefan Dusan/ Josip Broz Tito
Norway: Harald Fairhair, Harald Hardrada, Haakon IV
Sweden: Gustavus Adolphus
Denmark: Cnut the Great, Margaret I, Frederick III
Spain: Isabella, Phillip II, Charles I
Portugal: John II, John I
Celts: I don't know enough about these guys, again, so I'll just place Boudica here.
Huns: Attila
Poland: Casimir III, Casimir I, Casimir IV
Hungary: Arpad, Louis the Great, Matthias Corvinus
Turks: Suleiman the Magnificent, Mehmed the Conquer, Kumal Ataturk
Netherlands: William the Silent, William III of Orange

Asia:
Korea: I don't know enough about them, so I'll just put Sejong here.
Burma: Bayinnaung
Siam: Don't know enough about them, so I'll just put Ramkhamhaeng here.
Indonesia: Gajah Mada
Uzbeks: Muhammad Shaybani, Timurlane
Phoenicians: Ithobaal, Pygmalion
Israel: David, Solomon
Sumer: Gilgamesh
Assyria: Ashurbanipal
Armenia: Tigranes the Great, Tiridates III

Africa:
Mali: Mansa Musa
Ethiopia: Haile Salasse. There's a lot more, but Ethiopian history is long and vast and I don't want to look through it again
Zulu: Shaka
Kongo: Afonso
Songhai: Askia the Great
Fulani: Usman dan Fodio
Zimbabwe: Changamire Dombo, Mwenemutapa Matope
Berbers: Dihya, Masinissa, Jugurtha

Americas:
Maya: Pacal
Iroquois: Hiawatha
Dakota: Little Crow, Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse
Cherokee: John Ross
Brazil: Pedro II
Argentina: Jose de San Martin, Julio Argentino Roca, Juan Peron

Oceania:
Polynesia: Kamehameha I

 

[j51]

Base 21 (They did it in Civ II.)
American: FDR
Arabian: Abd al-Malik, or Harun al-Rashid
Aztec: Ahuizotl, or Nezahualcoyotl
Babylonian: Hammurabi
British: Palmerston (w/ Victoria seated behind him), or Pitt the Elder
Chinese: Taizong
Egyptian: Narmer, Hatshepsut, or Akhenaten
Ethiopian: Ezana, or Menelik II
French: Henri IV, Louis XIV, or Napoléon
German: Otto (the Great)
Greek: Alexander
Inca: Tupac Yupanqui
Japanese: Suiko and Prince Shotoku, or Meiji
Magadhan (Indian): Ashoka
Mali: Mansa Musa
Mongolian: Genghis Khan
Ottoman: Suleiman
Persian: Cyrus, Shapur, or Khosrau
Roman: Trajan, or Julius Caesar
Russian: Catherine, or Lenin
Spanish: Isabella and Ferdinand

Early DLC/Expansions
Assyrian: Ashurbanipal
Byzantine: Justinian and Theodora, or Basil II
Celtic: Vercingetorix
Haida: ?
Hittite: Sippiluliuma
Javanese: Gajah Mada (w/ Hayam Wuruk)
Khmer: Jayavarman VII
Kongolese: Nzinga (aka Joao I of actually Kongo)
Korean: ?
Maya: Lady of Tikal, or Pacal
Mughal: Akbar
Norse: Canute, or Margaret
Phoenician: Hiram (or Carthaginian: Hannibal)
Sumerian: Ur-Nammu, or Shulgi

Later DLC/Expansions
Benin: Ewuare
Berber: Dihya
Brazilian: Pedro II
Burmese: ?
Cherokee: Dragging Canoe (or Iroquois: not Hiawatha)
Dutch: Jan de Witt
Minoan: Minos (Do we know anyone else?)
Muisca: ?
Nubian: a Kandake
Polish: Casmir III, or Sigismund I, or II
Polynesian: a Tongan king?
Portuguese: Joao II
Scythian: Tomyris (or Khazar: Bulan)
Swahili: a Kilwa Sultan
Tamil: Raja Raja Chola

 

[Guandao]

Base 18

America-Theodore Roosevelt
Arabia-Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan
Aztecs-Ahuitzotl
China-Taizong of Tang
Egypt-Hatshepsut
England-Victoria
France-Louis XIV
Germany-Frederick Barbarossa
Greece-Pericles
Incas-Huayna Capac
India-Ashoka, or even Razia Sultana (she was Muslim though)
Japan-Hojo Tokimune (or maybe even Prince Shotoku)
Khmers-Suryavarman
Kongo-Nzinga (I know she ruled Ndongo, but she is cool )
Persia-Khosrau
Rome-Trajan
Russia-Peter the Great
Spain-Isabella

DLCs
Brazil-Pedro II
Netherlands-William
Korea-Seondeok of Silla
Poland-Jadwiga
Mongolia-Genghis Khan
Babylon-Hammurabi
Portugal-Joao II

First Expansion-
Ottomans-Mehmed the Conqueror
Byzantium-Empress Irene
Carthage-Hannibal
Gaels-Robert the Bruce
Mali-Mansa Musa
Maya-Lady Xoc
Shawnee-Tecumseh
Sweden-Christina
Vietnam-Trung Sisters

Second Expansion-
Austria-Maria Theresa
Denmark-Cnut
Ethiopia-Menelik
Hungary-Matthias Corvinus
Iroquois-Joseph Brant
Morocco-Yusuf bin Tashfin
Myanmar-Shin Sawbu
Siam-Naresuan
Zulu-Shaka

Third Expansion-
Assyria-Semiramis (her mod counterpart is too much fun )
Ashanti-Osei Tutu
Bulgaria-Simeon I
Florence-Lorenzo de Medici
Indonesia-Tribhuwana
Maori-Te Rauparaha
Nootka-Maquinna or Haida (led by Koyah)
Norway-Haakon IV
Nubia-Amanirenas

 

[INVICVS]

Europe:
England-Victoria
Germany-Frederik II or Bismark
France-Napoleon or Charles de Gaulle
Gauls: Vercingetorix
Scotland: Maria Stuart (?)
Spain-Isabella or Phillip II
Austria-Maria Teresa or Metternich
Rome-Caesar
Italy-Garibaldi
Portugal-Henry "the navigator"
Greece-Alexander or Perikles
Byzantium-Alexius Komnenus
Romania- Dracula <3
Poland-Jan sobeiski
Russia-Peter I or Ivan the terrible
Georgia (<3)-Tamar
Bulgaria-Boris I or Symeon I
Serbia-Stefan Nemanjic
Hungary-Arpad or Stefan I
Sweden- Gustaf adolf
Norway-Harald Hardrade
Finland-Mannerhaim

Asia:

Hittite: Labarna I
Persia: Cyrus
Arabia: Harun al rashid
India-&#9762;Ghandi&#9762;
Israel-David or Solomon
Phoenicians-Hiram
Mongolians-Ghenghis
China-Qin Shi Huang or Comrade Mao
Japan-Empress Jingu

Americas:
'Murica: Teddy or Lincoln
Brazil: Pedro (of course)
Aztecs: Montezuma or Axayacatl
Inca- Atahualpa

Africa:
Egypt: Echnaton
Ethiopia: Haile sellasie
Ghana: Mansa musa
Carthage: Hannibal or Dido
Numidia: Juba

 

[fredrikslicer]

Base game

France - Napoleon
ULA: Revolutionary emperor

Germany - Bismarck
ULA: Father of Germany

Spain - Isabella
ULA: Spanish Inquisition

England - Henry VII
ULA: Justices of the peace

Russia - Rurik
ULA: Varangian Rule

China - Taizu of Song
ULA: Imperial examination

Japan - Oda Nobunaga
ULA: Tenks Fubu

Mongolia - Genghis Khan
ULA: Ears of the Khan

India - Akbar
ULA: Din-I Ilahi

Taungoo Emp - Bayinnaung
ULA: Cakkavatti

Arabia - Al-Mansur
ULA: Patron of the Mutazila

Jerusalem - Baldwin I
ULA: Crusader king

Timurids - Timur the Lame
ULA: Jihad of Timur

Ottomans - Suliman and Roxelana
ULA: Lawgiver

Songhai - Askia the great
ULA: Cities of Learning

Ethiopia - Menelik II
ULA: Emiye

Zulu - Shaka Zulu
ULA: Spartans of Africa

Sokoto state - Uthman Ibn Fodio
ULA: Defender of the Faith

Expansion: Ancestry

Rome - Augustus, Aurelian or Marcus Auralius
ULA: Pax Romana
ULA: Restorer of the World
ULA: Stoic Virtue

Greece - Phillip II
ULA: Home of the Philosophies

Olmecs - Po Ngbe
ULA: Tu and Ku

Hittites - Supilima I
ULA: My Sun

Egypt - Ptolmey
ULA: Hellenic colony

Assyria - Ashurbanipal
ULA: Treasures of Ninveh

Babylon - Nebuchandezzar II
ULA: Destroyer of nations

Persia - Khosrow I
ULA: Deghan reform

Sumer - Gilgamesh
ULA: First of Heroes

Norse - Sigurd Ring
ULA: Legend of Bravalla


Expansion: Sea and Sword

Sweden - Gustavus Adolphus
ULA: Lion of the North

Florence - Lorenzo de Medici
ULA: Renaissance Prince

Portugal - John II
ULA: Indian Oceanic Spice trade

Neatherlands - Fredrick Henry
ULA: Stadtholder

Majaphit - Hayam Wuruk
ULA: Mahamantri

Sicily - Roger II
ULA: Amirs of Siciliy

Hafsid Tunisa - Abu Zakariya Yahya
ULA: Caliph of Maghreb

America - John Adams
ULA: Qasi warfare

Aztecs - Montezuma I
ULA: Floating Gardens

Poland - John III Sobieski
ULA: Siege breaker

 

[Lord of War N02]

Base CIV 6 20 civs
Aztecs - Montezuma I
America - Lincoln
Arabia - Muawiyah I or Baibars
Celts: William Wallance
China: Sun Yat Sen
England: Richard I
Egypt: Nerfiti
France: Henri IV
Germany: Frederick Barbarossa
Greece: Leonidas
Inca: Manco Capac(First leader of Cuzco)
India: Akbar
Japan: Kanmu or Jimmu
Korea: Seondeok of Silla
Poland: Boleslaw I or Pilsudski(We need some modern leader love hehehe)
Rome: Trajan or some Republican Roman leader
Siam: Naresuan or Narai
Spain: Alfonso X or Felipe II
Turkey: Osman I or Alp Arslan(This time not focus on Ottoman only also Seljuk and Modern Turkey)
Zulu: Cetshwayo

DLC
Brazil: Vargas or Pedro I(Father of Pedro II)
Carthage: Hanno the Great or Hannibal
Iroquois: Joseph Brant
Mongolia: Batu Khan or Kublai Khan
Netherlands: Wilhelmina
Persia: Khosrau of Sassanid or Nader Shah
SE Asian civ pack: Burma: Bayinnaung or Aung San, Cambodia/Khmer: Jayavarman VII, Indonesia(Javanese): Hayum Wuruk or Sukarno and Vietnam: Le Loi or Quang Trung
Scandinavia or Denmark if Scandinavia split into Denmark and Sweden: Christian IV or Margrethe I(Free DLC like Mongolia in CIV V)

Expansion 1
Ashanti: Osei Tutu
Babylon: Hammurabi
Berber or Maghreb(to include both Arabs and Bebers in North Africa): Yusuf ibn Tashfin
Byzantines: Basil II
Ethiopia: Menelik II
Hittites: Mursili II
Hungary: Istvan I
Mali: Mansa Musa
Portugal: Afonso Henriques
Sweden: Gustav Vasa

Expansion 2
Assyria: Sennacherib
Argentina: Juan Peron
Austria: Franz Joseph
Kongo: Nzinga Mbemba/Afonso I of Kongo
Maya: Smoke Jaguar
Nubia: Piye or some Sudanese leader
Scythia: Scyles
Serbia or Yugoslavia(if include Croatia and Bosnia): Stephen V Dusan
Sioux: Sitting Bulls
Turkestan(for Central Asian Turks): Timur

Expansion 3
Bulgaria: Simeon
Colombia: Simon Bolivar
Dravidian: Rajendra I Chola
Italy: Medici leaders
Israel: David or Solomon
Laos: Fa Ngum
Malaysia(Malays): Parameshwa
Polynesia: Kalakua
Romania: Vlad Dracula or Antonescu
Shoshone: Potacello

 

[Aesir_Snacks]

Base game

America – Theodore Roosevelt
Arabs – Saladin
Aztecs – Nezahualcoyotl
China – Taizong of Tang
Egypt – Cleopatra
England – Victoria
France – Catherine de Medici
Georgia – Tamar
Germany – Frederick Barbarossa
Greek – Pericles
Inca – Tupac Inca
India – Ashoka
Japan – Himiko
Madagascar – Ranavalona I
Persia – Mithridates II
Rome – Marcus Aurelius
Russia – Ivan Grozny
Vietnam – Trung Sisters

Kept Catherine, Cleopatra, and Victoria because of how their in-game depictions have won me over. Kept Frederick, Pericles, and Saladin because I don't have any really great ideas for those Civs – for a lot of these, I'll be honest, I don't know enough about their potential leaders to really judge that well. Teddy I kept because, well... He's Teddy Roosevelt. And I'll admit, Marcus Aurelius got on the list mainly because of that beard.

Given all the evidence that multiple leaders may be coming, I felt free to pick some serious wildcard leaders; most obviously Himiko and Nezahualcoyotl.

Digital Deluxe DLC

Brazil – Pedro II
Korea – Queen Seondeok
Poland – Jadwiga
Spain – Isabella

Not much to say here.

Test of Time DLC (“Classic” Civ leaders)

Aztecs – Montezuma I
Greece – Alexander
India – Gandhi

It just isn't the Aztecs without Montezuma, and it just isn't Civ without Gandhi (I know, I know).

Brotherhood of Nations expansion (Diplomacy focused; World Congress/UN returns)

Babylon – Hammurabi
Iroquois – Hiawatha
Kongo – Garcia Afonso
Netherlands – William of Orange
Ottomans – Mehmed II
Portugal – João II
Scythians – Tomyris
Sweden – Christina
Switzerland – Henri Dufour

America – George Washington
England – Henry VIII
Germany – Otto von Bismarck
Japan – Tokugawa Ieyasu
Rome – Julius Caesar

Another relatively wildcard heavy list. The first expansion's likely focus on diplomacy/the World Congress influenced my choices; the Iroquois/Hiawatha, Sweden, and Switzerland were obvious choices given this, as was adding Bismarck as a second leader. Henry VIII fits the "big personality" rule of thumb and allows for Longbowmen to make a return. The second American leader I had trouble deciding on; given the diplomacy focus I almost went with Ben Franklin or John Quincy Adams, but both were a bit too wildcardy.

Conquest & Collapse expansion (Expanding on revolution mechanics and ideologies? Adding a concept of cultural/linguistic groups, cultural assimilation, and refugees/migration/resettlement? On the other hand, some of that may be too controversial to touch)

Assyria – Sennacherib
Denmark/Norse – Canute
Finland – C.G.E. Mannerheim
Ghana – Yaa Asantewaa
Italy – Giuseppe Garibaldi
Maya – Xoc
Mongols – Genghis Khan
Scotland – Robert the Bruce
Zulus – Shaka

Egypt – Mehmet Ali Pasha
France – Napoleon
Ottomans – Roxelana
Russia – Vladimir Lenin
Vietnam – Ho Chi Minh

Not sure how I happy I am with this honestly. Again, went heavy on wildcards and tried to add leaders and Civs that fit the theme of the expansion (although I'm not sure how well my idea for a cultural diversity mechanic would work, or if it could be done tastefully). But, I also had to fit in the last few Civs that were either essentials or ones that I wanted personally.

Finland (with a Sniper UU?), Italy (I know Garibaldi never actually governed Italy, but this is a silly wishlist, so I can do what I want ), and Ashanti/Ghana under Yaa Asantewaa were obvious choices to fit a focus on revolutions and ideologies. Ditto for Napoleon, Lenin, and Ho Chi Minh (probably too controversial in the US, but again, silly wishlist) as alternate leaders. The Mongols actually fit well with a cultural diversity mechanic, and Assyria could work well with a migration/resettlement mechanic, although again, it'd be a very line to walk to make that work. Mehmet Ali Pasha as an alternate Egyptian leader representing modern, Muslim Egypt might be too distinct from the ancient Egyptian theme of the Egypt Civ, but as a wildcard choice, it's fun.

 

[HanNorwood]

Plus, Ben Franklin was the president that was never president.

Gotta be honest, that's my favorite list so far, but it is missing something from "Conquest and Collapse". Where's Vlad the Impaler?