Idealogy and Tourism and the happiness penalty

[therottweiler]

Can anyone explain to me how that all works. First time playing BNW and I thought I developed my culture pretty well and BAM modern era hits and I am totally hosed.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

The best way I can think of is that the pressure is generated by their level of tourism over your culture, so check other people's culture/tourism thingy (in the % level tab in Culture whateveR)

 

[therottweiler]

The best way I can think of is that the pressure is generated by their level of tourism over your culture, so check other people's culture/tourism thingy (in the % level tab in Culture whateveR)

So it is a one to one cordination.. my culture output vs there tourism.. if I win that I am not hosed? Is it Point Per Turn or overall total.

My tourism does not protect my idealogy correct only culture?

 

[Alziel]

It's really difficult to stay safe from Ideological pressure with just Culture alone. You can ignore Tourism if you just want to pick the same Ideology as the Tourism leaders and stave off a Culture Victory from them but this approach won't usually work if you go for a different Ideology.

If you don't work Tourism as well you will most likely be hit by Ideological dissidents later in the game. It's not as simple as just generating more Culture than they generate Tourism - you have to stay ahead on par or ahead of them with 'Influence' and for this, Tourism is a better defence than Culture.

Everybody starts with 'Unknown' cultural influence from everybody else. To gain the first level of 'Exotic' influence, it is necessary to generate Tourism equal to or more than 10% of another Civ's Culture output. After that, it is necessary to generate Tourism equal to or more than 30% of that same Civ's Culture output. Succeed and 'Familiar' influence is gained.

And so on. 'Influential' influence is reached when Tourism output is equal to or more than another Civ's Culture output.

The way that this translates to Ideologies is in the difference between influence levels. For each difference in influence levels between Civs with differing Ideologies, the Civ with the least influence will get 1 ideological pressure point.

So what this means is that if you have 'Unknown' influence with another Civ who has 'Familiar' influence with you (i.e. they produce 30% or more of your Culture output in Tourism but you don't even produce 10% of their Culture output in Tourism) you will get 2 ideological pressure points. The more pressure points you receive, the unhappier your people will become - to the point where they may force you to switch Ideologies. If the dominant Civ's Ideology has been voted as the World Ideology it gets even worse as then each pressure point becomes 2 pressure points!

This means that unless you are reasonably sure that you can produce enough Culture so as to not have any other Civ reach even 'Exotic' level with you, you have to work on Tourism to a level where you can at least maintain the same level of Influence with the Tourism leader. Either that or you need to make sure that you have plenty of spare Happiness to weather the storm!

PS: The 'Influence by Player' tab on the Culture Panel helps you keep track of the influence that each player has over another. Mouse over the different Influence levels to see all the percentages.

Hope this helps.

 

[kb27787]

So it is a one to one cordination.. my culture output vs there tourism.. if I win that I am not hosed? Is it Point Per Turn or overall total.

My tourism does not protect my idealogy correct only culture?

both tourism and culture does protect your ideology...
% of your tourism against THEIR culture determines your influence level over them
% of THEIR tourism against your tourism determines their influence over you.

If these two values are "different", then the civ with higher influence level (by level I mean unknown, exotic, familiar, popular, influential, dominant) exerts pressure (unhappiness if ideology is different, buffer against other civ's pressure if they are the same) on the other. (the two values need not be exactly the same but as long as they are on the same % range)

 

[therottweiler]

It's really difficult to stay safe from Ideological pressure with just Culture alone. You can ignore Tourism if you just want to pick the same Ideology as the Tourism leaders and stave off a Culture Victory from them but this approach won't usually work if you go for a different Ideology.

If you don't work Tourism as well you will most likely be hit by Ideological dissidents later in the game. It's not as simple as just generating more Culture than they generate Tourism - you have to stay ahead on par or ahead of them with 'Influence' and for this, Tourism is a better defence than Culture.

Everybody starts with 'Unknown' cultural influence from everybody else. To gain the first level of 'Exotic' influence, it is necessary to generate Tourism equal to or more than 10% of another Civ's Culture output. After that, it is necessary to generate Tourism equal to or more than 30% of that same Civ's Culture output. Succeed and 'Familiar' influence is gained.

And so on. 'Influential' influence is reached when Tourism output is equal to or more than another Civ's Culture output.

The way that this translates to Ideologies is in the difference between influence levels. For each difference in influence levels between Civs with differing Ideologies, the Civ with the least influence will get 1 ideological pressure point.

So what this means is that if you have 'Unknown' influence with another Civ who has 'Familiar' influence with you (i.e. they produce 30% or more of your Culture output in Tourism but you don't even produce 10% of their Culture output in Tourism) you will get 2 ideological pressure points. The more pressure points you receive, the unhappier your people will become - to the point where they may force you to switch Ideologies. If the dominant Civ's Ideology has been voted as the World Ideology it gets even worse as then each pressure point becomes 2 pressure points!

This means that unless you are reasonably sure that you can produce enough Culture so as to not have any other Civ reach even 'Exotic' level with you, you have to work on Tourism to a level where you can at least maintain the same level of Influence with the Tourism leader. Either that or you need to make sure that you have plenty of spare Happiness to weather the storm!

PS: The 'Influence by Player' tab on the Culture Panel helps you keep track of the influence that each player has over another. Mouse over the different Influence levels to see all the percentages.

Hope this helps.

This explains it perfectly! Thank you!

 

[offworld]

For each difference in influence levels between Civs with differing Ideologies, the Civ with the least influence will get 1 ideological pressure point.

Just want to add to this: Powerful culture/tourism Civs can protect weaker civs of the same ideology from opposing ideology influence. If you are influenced by civs with the same ideology, those pressure points are deducted from the pressure of opposing ideologies.

 

[Alziel]

Just want to add to this: Powerful culture/tourism Civs can protect weaker civs of the same ideology from opposing ideology influence. If you are influenced by civs with the same ideology, those pressure points are deducted from the pressure of opposing ideologies.

Very good point!

therottweiler - I'm happy that you found my tips useful. In addition to the extra tip given by offworld above, you can also look at ways of reducing Tourism Influence on you by minimizing the situations that give boosts to Tourism. These include, Open Borders, Shared Religion and Trade Routes amongst others. Again, all this can be seen in the 'Influence by Player' tab.

Basically, playing a more isolationist game will make it more difficult for somebody to influence you.

 

[Pythakoreas]

Just want to add to this: Powerful culture/tourism Civs can protect weaker civs of the same ideology from opposing ideology influence. If you are influenced by civs with the same ideology, those pressure points are deducted from the pressure of opposing ideologies.

Culture runaways would be stronger then, since tourism applies to everyone in the world, and if Tourism giants could influence others they could influence you. If you have smaller Tourism compared to the runaway, you'll have smaller ideology influence than now.

 

[rexman07]

If the dominant Civ's Ideology has been voted as the World Ideology it gets even worse as then each pressure point becomes 2 pressure points!

If I recall correctly, World Ideology adds two pressure points towards that Ideology to all civilizations, rather than doubling pressure points of more influential civilizations as you suggested. For example, if I follow Autocracy and the World Ideology is Autocracy, then I will have two extra pressure points towards Autocracy that will effectively cancel out two pressure points I'm getting from Order or Freedom civs, which will reduce or eliminate the unhappiness penalty from that pressure.