Ideas for Automatic Document Generator utility

[zagnut]

I certainly understand the desire not to want to log all movements, especially if you don't type well. However, I am not sure that we really want a log of every move. The timelines that have been summitted over the last couple of months have become pretty tideous - mine included.

I have come to the realization that it doesn't really interest me to know that you moved your Warrior one square to the SE, etc. I usually skip over those entries. What interests me, and what I think we should concentrate more on writing, is why we made a certain decision and how that decision fits in with an overall strategy. The strategy can be either short or long term. I know that some of you determine a strategy from the very beginning and stick to it. I can't play that way. However, I do have short term strategies and can articulate why I made a certain decision in support of that strategy. For instance, why I might decide to invade when I get Horsemen, instead of waiting to upgrade to Swordsmen.

I think this may be what ControlFreak is getting at when he points out the things that the utility program won't be able to do. His post made me realize that I don't want a lot of data and statistics. I want to know what you are thinking and why you made a certain decision. If your decision peaks my interest I may take a look at your game to see how your decision made out compared to mine.

 

[Grey Fox]

Very good idea. This could save me a lot of time and effort, as writing the log isn't really what I want to do, playing the game is more my cup of tea

But as Zagnut says, your thoughts can't be automatically printed, and it is those that are the interesting part of the log, and the time consuming ones.

 

[DaveMcW]

Tracer, others have already tried the same thing and published their results. Check out the links in Aeson's second post.

 

[ControlFreak]

@zagnut

You're right, there can be WAY too much detail in timelines. The best ones seem to be the quick status updates with a running commentary of what you're trying to do.

I think that the SAV analyzer should provide the 6 things required by the Quick Start Challenge. I also think it should include when cities are founded. (I don't think that was on the list.) Then there should be a "Why" edit box that would provide a place to input your rational each turn.

I've sort of given up developing something because work got busy. If I get time I think an easier approach would be a Toolbar that provided buttons that could automate some of the more common entries like "Trade with..." {Dropdown menu with all civs}. "Popped hut and got..." {Dropdown menu with settler, warrior...} A tech dropdown list could help enter things also. Basically have a macro to type the common words out into MS Word/Favorite text editor. This would let me write most of the timeline with my mouse rather than doing a lot of typing.

But, no time now. Maybe later if no one else publishs something.

 

[zagnut]

What you say about a toolbar strikes a chord with me. I use a combat calculator by CivLackey that floats above the civ screen. It is always available and all I have to do is click on it to bring up the calculator. It is really elegant. Perhaps that idea could be used to gather the info each turn and then provide a means to input the players strategic thinking.

CivLackey's combat calculator can be found here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34114

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by zagnut
What you say about a toolbar strikes a chord with me. I use a combat calculator by CivLackey that floats above the civ screen. It is always available and all I have to do is click on it to bring up the calculator. It is really elegant. Perhaps that idea could be used to gather the info each turn and then provide a means to input the players strategic thinking.

That 's exactly what I really want. However, I haven't figure out how to program that yet. I wrote a snapshot program which allow me to select which portion of the screen to capture then saves directly to JPG file format (what can I say...I'm too lazy with Print Screen). Currently, it can float on top of ALL other Windows application; however, it fails to float on top of Civ3. CivLackey obviously has overcome that little problem, since he knows how to float ontop of Civ3.

It would be best if we can convince him to do the logging feature too. Obviously, he can program much better than me.

 

[jeffelammar]

I too find this idea very interesting. It seems to me that the easiest way to do this would be to write a program which runs in the background watching the AutoSave directory. Each time a new file is created in the directory, you compare it to the last one.

While not perfect for the reasons stated earlier in this thread, this seems to me like it would work.

I was going to give this a shot, but I have never tried to work with a game save file before. I tried to open a save game file in a hex editor and saw none of the keys that were mentioned. The threads mentioned above seem to be out of date. Maybe I'm missing something, but it looks like the new save format has been encoded differently.

If someone could point me at a more up to date version of the civ save format I'll see what I can whip up.

Thanks

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by jeffelammar
If someone could point me at a more up to date version of the civ save format I'll see what I can whip up.

The format of the save game was posted by Aeson toward the beginning of this thread.

____

Update: Finally, I can float my little snapshot program on top of Civ3. Next, I will attempt to read the auto save file.

 

[Moonsinger]

A sample preview of my log keeper/advisor. Of course, there is a set of floating buttons on top of Civ3. When we click on it, it will pop up the log keeper/advisor (etc...) so that you can type in whater that we want.

 

[Ribannah]

Hmm, the Windows key works just fine for me. Press the key, then one click and Notepad (or any other application) floats on top of Civ3. One click when I'm done and it's in the background again.

 

[Justus II]

@controlFreak_ Check out the QSC timelines from last month, I think Yndy had one set up in Excel that was similar to what you are saying, with dropdown boxes and columns for key categories. Check it out from GOTM15.

 

[jeffelammar]

I appologize for my denseness, but I have opened up save games in both a hex editor, and have run them through a program that reads them byte by byte (and char by char). I saw none of the keys that were listed in the mentioned link.

When I read a .bic, I see the format discussed, but not in the .sav. If someone could point me at what I'm doing wrong...

 

[Grey Fox]

The save games are compressed so you need to decompress the save first.

 

[Aeson]

Autosaves don't compress though, so you can open them up and look.

 

[hbdragon88]

Ahh that would explain why the files that I myself save are very small (about .5MB) and autosaves are HUGE - 1 to 2MB.

 

[jeffelammar]

Ahh. That explains it. Thanks.

 

[Sirp]

Sounds like an interesting idea, although the turn wouldn't be logged until *after* the next turn begins, which would be a little awkward perhaps.

I don't know what work others have done on the save format, except knowing that MapStat gleans only a very small subset of the data available from a save file. However, I have done a little work on documenting it - not very much, but more than what's in MapStat. If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to post what I know.

-Sirp.

 

[Mercade]

Is there any information on why FIRAXIS has elected to keep the save file format secret? They promote editing of maps, graphics and rules, and I'm sure they see there are many enthusiastic people who want to extract information from save files.

Of course if you can read the save file well, then you can also write it, but there are two easy methods to prevent that from happening:
1) create a (secret) checksum that prevents editing a save file.
2) create a read-only interface (even by a volunteer under NDA if they don't have the time).

 

[Sirp]

I suspect the reason Firaxis wouldn't publish details of the save file is because players could use it to cheat by looking at information they're not meant to know about, even if it couldn't be written.

Thankfully they have made the save file relatively easy to read (and to write in some instances). Aside from encrypting the amount of gold each civilization has, everything else seems fairly obvious. Why they encrypt the amount of gold, while the number of beakers into research, contacts between civs, the type of units, and so forth is all straightforward baffles me. Who cares if you can't change the amount of gold you have, when you can easily turn your 5 regular warriors into 5 elite tanks?

-Sirp.

 

[Jurimax]

@Sirp
Feel free to post, I could make the time to look into it, and possibly with the help of others here in the forums could we create some kind of blueprint.
That would give us something to work on.
I know VB, C, C++ and a little bit of Java.