Ideas for Automatic Document Generator utility

[TedJackson]

Sorry I haven't got back to this sooner (been busy on GOTM).

First of all I think we need to clarify where we are and where we're going.

Options
1. We ask SpiderZord to produce a DLL exporting raw game info every turn.
2. We ask SpiderZord to do all the hard work and produce a nice PowerTimeLine program for us.
3. Somebody comes up with an option 3

Option 1 would require
a) Somebody to produce a User Interface
b) Somebody to produce An analysis/conversion module (to process the raw data).
c) Other stuff yet to be decided.

Option 2 requires
a) Requirement, ideas and feedback to be funneled to SpiderZord

Before we get into the details of any products let's decide on which option is most likely to result in a working product. So we need some feedback here ASAP.

If we decide on option 1 then we need to know how many programmers we can call on, their preferred and alternate languages (both programming and written/spoken) and, perhaps most importantly, their availability & commitment to the project.

We then need to think about co-ordinating effort and producing (at least rudimentary) documentation for the project (not end user docs).

For myself my preferred language would be Delphi with VB as 2nd choice. I could commit about 6 hours a week, at the moment. I am happy to work on the code or co-ordination if we go with option 1

I'm pretty determined to get this thing up & running as I'm a newbie Civver and playing GOTM (especially the QSC) with a timeline has definitely raised my game.

How about everyone else?

Edited: Because I go my options mixed up

I guess I'll leave this in place until after the weekend but we should probably ask for this thread to be moved elsewhere (C&C?) after that.

regards


Ted

 

[Jurimax]

I'm in if you need me.
Preferred languages: VB, C++ could try others

I have about the same amount of time available as you Ted, about 6 hours per week. Still busy with GOTM, Tournament and some other stuff.

 

[ControlFreak]

Originally posted by TedJackson
Option 2 requires
a) Requirement, ideas and feedback to be funneled to SpiderZord

and

b) SpiderZord is willing, able and available to do this. (please)

I am a PLC programmer with some past experience in PASCAL! I have done some VB programming for Excel Macros and the like but I doubt I will be much help here.

With that said, I could probably fit in 5-10 hours/week to help and I would be willing to "pickup" whatever the development language of choice is.

 

[cavemanf16]

I have a suggestion for this utility, as it is something I wanted to invent as well. Perhaps Moonsinger, you could include a keylogging type of program to capture keystrokes. Mouse clicking would pose a problem, but for those early battles where units are moving one or two tiles at a time, and you're using the keypad to move them, logging those keystrokes, in addition to generating a 'PrintScreen' of Civ3 every 5 seconds or so would help in your quest to remember what moves you made with which units and such. I dunno, that might be too processor and HDD intensive tho. Just a wild thought.

 

[Moonsinger]

cavemanf16: That's way over my head. I don't know how to do that.

 

[TedJackson]

I edited my earlier post as I got my options mixed up

ControlFreak

b) SpiderZord is willing, able and available to do this.

Forgot to mention bribes/backhanders

Ted

 

[SpiderZord]

First, Ted's options 1 or 2 makes no difference to me. I have some time available, although it gets a little sparse in the spring (I coach my youngest son T-ball & the other two play soccer) & I have PowerBar that I'm still working on...

Second, a few scope questions:
1) I don't play the GOTM games, so I'm not sure of the requirements. What is the primary purpose of the this log (community review for post game analysis)?
2) How much detail? Obviously unit by unit moves captured for every turn is possible, but would overwelm a reader as a text document. Some posts here lead me to believe a 'playback' VCR of a game is desired...so what format is the final output? A text file of highlights and a database of unit movements by year with a way of accessing releavent data?

My experience is with VB & databases, so I thinking about the VCR idea, I just don't know how much data a game would represent...

As a beginning, I think simplicity is key. A floating toolbar that gives quick access to a notepad that automatically notes game year & other items in required list (goody hut results, diplomacy negotiations) in some easy picklist form. I'll put together a quick beta along these lines and we'll go from there...

 

[TedJackson]

Originally posted by SpiderZord
First, Ted's options 1 or 2 makes no difference to me. I have some time available, although it gets a little sparse in the spring (I coach my youngest son T-ball & the other two play soccer) & I have PowerBar that I'm still working on...

Glad to hear someone's got spare time

Thanks for responding so quickly. Did you get my PM?

Second, a few scope questions:
1) I don't play the GOTM games, so I'm not sure of the requirements. What is the primary purpose of the this log (community review for post game analysis)?
2) How much detail? Obviously unit by unit moves captured for every turn is possible, but would overwelm a reader as a text document. Some posts here lead me to believe a 'playback' VCR of a game is desired...so what format is the final output? A text file of highlights and a database of unit movements by year with a way of accessing releavent data?

My experience is with VB & databases, so I thinking about the VCR idea, I just don't know how much data a game would represent...

1. I guess this is still open for discussion. Personally, I just want something that will record the tedia (worker moves S, Fred (warrior) enters GH and gets a free tech) and allow me to make notes on strategy/tactics. I would also like a turn by turn breakdown of my empire to enable a sitrep to be produced: Per City Pop (happy, content, unhappy etc), Prod (generated, lost, applied) and Food (including turns to pop growth). Researching (turns to completion), Research Rate, Lux Rate, Gold (current balance, growth/deficit) just for starters

2. I seem to have answered this in 1 but I'm sure others here have their own ideas to put forward.

As a beginning, I think simplicity is key. A floating toolbar that gives quick access to a notepad that automatically notes game year & other items in required list (goody hut results, diplomacy negotiations) in some easy picklist form. I'll put together a quick beta along these lines and we'll go from there...

That would be great. My offer of those 6 hours/week stands if it would help and the licensing allows it.

I know you are trying to sort out the wrinkles with PB at the moment, so if there is anything I can do to help just let me know.

regards

Ted

 

[Jurimax]

As I mentioned before,I'd like to help also .
Visual Basic would be fine with me.

What, IMHO, should be the output of the program is two files.
1) Text-file with general info on goody huts, acquired contacts, trades, techs discovered

2) A database with all the other info. Unit movements, city details, civilization details....

Just brainstorming here, so anybody feel free to comment...


Greetings Jurimax (hoping to be part of this great initiative ;-) ;-) )

 

[SpiderZord]

Here is a quick demo I put together - I have no ownership over how the actual final interface looks, but this represents what is possible (as far as floating/partially visible/fully visible/hidden). The data represents just what I could throw together quickly (turn,year,science slider,entertainment slider & current tech being researched). It is a small exe (I haven't moved the data class into a dll yet - so I don't have source code available yet).

You need to have a civ3 game loaded before you run the executable (alt-tab from civ3 to folder where you saved it and double-click on the PowerTimeLine.exe).

I'll start moving the more complicated data into a code version that uses a dll and upload some sample code when I can get it done.

I forgot to mention, I took a short cut on a couple of things so this may only work with PTW. The final version will be compatible with either version. [Edit]- yes, I just tested and the values for the science/entertainment sliders are at different mem locations for vanilla civ3, so they don't work - but the turn and researching boxes are fine...

 

[TedJackson]

SpiderZord,

fast work!

Unfortunately I can't comment as I'm in the UK and I'm stuck at 1.14f.

Ted

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by SpiderZord
Here is a quick demo I put together - I have no ownership over how the actual final interface looks, but this represents what is possible (as far as floating/partially visible/fully visible/hidden). The data represents just what I could throw together quickly (turn,year,science slider,entertainment slider & current tech being researched). It is a small exe (I haven't moved the data class into a dll yet - so I don't have source code available yet).

You need to have a civ3 game loaded before you run the executable (alt-tab from civ3 to folder where you saved it and double-click on the PowerTimeLine.exe).

I'll start moving the more complicated data into a code version that uses a dll and upload some sample code when I can get it done.

Excellent work! Everytime, I end my turn, it's automatically recognize that too without me telling it to do anything. That shows that you can do great manything when it's done. At this point, I say that this baby (this project) is yours to keep. I'm looking forward to the next demo or alpha version. Please keep up the good work and thanks for taking over.

 

[RufRydyr]

1st: That was fast!!!

2nd: Here's some problems I've found. You're probably aware of them since it's in beta, but in case not here they are:

Started a new game and got this:

 

[RufRydyr]

Played a couple of turns and tried it again and it worked. It's pretty cool!

But, I'd really like to see worker movements and actions recorded. (Oops, just noticed this wasn't in the demo version.)

Is there a way to go back a turn if you hit 'next turn' and then remember something? (This isn't in the demo, but would be cool.)


Also, where is it logging to? (Or maybe it isn't yet. Maybe that's not part of the demo.)

 

[SpiderZord]

Originally posted by RufRydyr
But, I'd really like to see worker movements and actions recorded. (Oops, just noticed this wasn't in the demo version.)
...
Also, where is it logging to? (Or maybe it isn't yet. Maybe that's not part of the demo.)

I should have mentioned - my day job is consulting, so my demos don't actually DO anything - just appear to do something

I don't actually have it logging to a file yet, I just wanted to demo the ability to track changes occurring in civ data. Once I add the city, map tiles & units to the class, I'll boost the demo up a notch - then we can get serious about interface/logging format.

Ted - doesn't seem right since you recruited me... I have the old 1.14f offsets, so I'll send you a demo copy that should work with that version. [Edit - I don't have your email, so I just attached it to the next post. It's a blind stab by just updating the offsets, I can't test without backing up versions...hopefully at least some of it will work to give you an idea.]

 

[SpiderZord]

Ted - hope this works. (Demo only for PTW 1.14f)

 

[TedJackson]

Originally posted by SpiderZord
Ted - doesn't seem right since you recruited me... I have the old 1.14f offsets, so I'll send you a demo copy that should work with that version.

Thanks SpiderZord. I'll d'load it and have a firkle.

Edit - I don't have your email, so I just attached it to the next post. It's a blind stab by just updating the offsets, I can't test without backing up versions...hopefully at least some of it will work to give you an idea.]

I'll PM my email.

The delay in Firaxis/Infogrames rollout of 1.21 for the rest of the world is a royal PIA.

regards


Ted

 

[TedJackson]

SpiderZord,

I also got the "Run-time error 9: subsript out of range" error. But only if I load PTL/ADG before I end the first turn. I only tested half a dozen times but it was consistent.

So it looks as if it's maybe to do with the in-mem "civs" array not being initialised (by Civ prog) until they take their first move.

Apart from that (minor) niggle things are shaping up good.

The Science & Lux slider settings work as expected and a change in research topic is properly reflected in PTL.

I know it's too early to be making suggestions but I'll just jot these down while they're fresh

1. Move the app to top RH corner rather than centred? This would probably avoid the "log window" obscuring the unit/city that the user is currently concentrating on.

2. Copying the turn, year, slider and research info to the "log" window would make this usable for this month's GOTM (18). If you can do this (easily & quickly) then I'll guinea pig it for you in a real game. Don't worry about saving the text, I'll C&P to Textpad each turn.


Just thought of something else to try on RT error 9:

I moved the settler on the first turn, ended the turn then loaded PTL/ADG. Got RT error 9. So I kept moving the settler and trying to load PTL. Got the error every time. Settled in 3450 BC - tried PTL before ending turn, still RT error 9. Ended turn, started PTL - works fine.

Hope this helps you track down this problem. Initialised Civs < Total Civs in game maybe?

regards

Ted

 

[Jurimax]

Thanks a lot Spiderzord, I won't be able however to test it, I don't have PTW yet, and besides I'll have to struggle to finish my current GOTM.

Thanks, you're the best

 

[SpiderZord]

Here is PTL v1.1:

1) Fixed the subscript error - before first city the current research value was being passed to the Tech name array as FFFF, it's now trapped and tech is reported as "N/A"

2) At the 'end of turn event', I copy the turn, sliders & researching text to the new 'Last turn log' text box, along with the turn notes of the original text box. I then 'open' the PTL to show the log so that the 'Last turn log' can be copy and pasted per Ted's suggestion. Again, format of log??? I just took a stab based on old GOTM16 logs. The 'Goody Hut Event' button can still be used to append an entry to the turn notes, but you'll have to manually update things like 'techX'.

3) Moved the position of PTL to right side per Ted's suggestion. I don't know if it's any more out of the way, but it can be 'hidden' altogether with the H button for seeing underneath it.

Let me know what you think. (The attachment contains BOTH versions 1.21f & 1.14f compatible).