[Ideas] Upgrades of Combat and Unit System

[Krajzen]

Few ideas about warfare system... I would be proud if a single thing from this list was adopted into one of new community expansions

PROBLEMS OF CURRENT UNIT/WAR SYSTEM

Spoiler :

1) Almost nonextistent early era naval combat
2) Lack of ugrades for Scout/Recon group
3) Composite Bowmans and Crossbowmans much stronger than all units from the same eras
4) Underpowered Swordsmen who require very specific technology (and still weaker than Pikemen)
5) Impossibility to counter Frigates with anything other than... Frigaters [many multi - players can confirm that] and total domination of Navigation tech
6) Relatively weak cavalry.
7) Extremely fragile early siege units
8) Controversial pikemen - lancer - AT gun - helicopter upgrade line...
9) Chariots' promotions turned useless when upgraded to Knights
10) Gatling/machine guns with limited range... and purpose
11) ...AT guns are at most moderately useful
12) Almost entirely useless Marine unit
13) Early war made hard because of ridiculous warmonger penalties
14) Early war made hard because of high unit maintenance
15) Generally speaking, peace>war
16) Ridiculous chronological and gameplay gap in renaissance: crossbowman -> gatling gun, knights -> cavalry, overpowered artillery, controversial Lancer unit
17) Very tedious moving of big armies through the map
18) Unbalanced Galleas, Frigate and Missile Cruiser units

KRAJZEN'S INSANE IDEAS
1) Completely reworked unit upgrade lines [with possible new era, Enlighment, to repair 16) - also, surprisingly many people would like to see it]
2) More City Capture Options and Partisans
3) Attrition System


1) UNITS

MELEE LINE

Spoiler :

All these units receive combat penalty against mounted/armor

Warrior
Swordsman - 14 strenght and Cover I promotion
Longswordsman - 21 strenght and Cover I promotion [upgrades to Line Infantry]
Musketman - 24 strenght but no Cover I
Line Infantry - 28S
Riflemen - 34 S
WWI Infantry - 50S
Infantry - 70S
Mechanized Infantry - 90S, available earlier

Now Swordsmen and Longsworsmen are more resistant on ranged attacks - hey, they have shields and armor, don't they? Still, they are expensive, require obscure technological path and Iron so I guess they are still balanced.

So they are strong against ranged but weak against cavalry.

RANGED LINE

Spoiler :

2 range for all units before Sniper
Archer - 5 melee/7 ranged S
Composite Archer - 7 melee/11 ranged S, penalty against cities
Crossbowman - 13 melee/18 ranged S, penalty against cities
Grenadier - 18 melee/23 ranged S, no penalty
Gatling Gun - 23 melee/28 ranged S, penalty against cities
Machine Gun - 46 melee/56 ranged S, penalty against cities
Sniper - 3 range and 3 movement, 70 melee/100 ranged S, penalty against armor

Now ranged units are weaker against cities and early infantry. Gatling/Machine Gun/Sniper have normal range, many people didn't like their useless short range, but they also have lower combat strenght. Sniper fits Ranged much more than Bazooka.

SIEGE LINE

Spoiler :

all units receive terrain bonuses
Catapult - 7 melee/8 ranged
Trebuchet - 12 melee/14 ranged
Cannon - 14 melee/20 ranged
Howitzer - 18 melee/24 ranged, range 3 OR indirect fire (not sure here)
Artillery - 21 melee/28 ranged, range 3 AND indirect fire
Self-Propelled Artillery - 30 melee/45 ranged, speed 3
Rocked Artillery - 45 melee/60 ranged, speed 3 and doesn't have to set up

Catapult and trebuchet are more important during sieges. Howitzer between cannon and artillery makes the artillery less overpowered, self propelled artillery fills the void between artillery and RA.

MOBILE LINE

Spoiler :

Horseman - 14S
Knight - 21S
Dragoon - 28S [weak against Lancers]
Cavalry - 34S
Modern Cavalry - 46S, weak against Landships
Landship - 60S
Tank - 80S [so it will be bigger than Infantry S]
Modern Armor - 100S
GDR - 150S

Dragoon fixes the awful void between Knight and Cavalry, MC does the same with Cavalry - Landship.

ANTI MOBILE LINE

Spoiler :

Obviously these units have anti mounted bonuses.
Spearman - 11S
Pikeman - 16S
Lancer - 25S
Cuirassier - 34S
Anti Tank Gun - 50S, range 2
Bazooka - 70S, range 2
Helicopter - 90S

Not sure how exactly set combat strenght here but general ideas are:

- Cuirassier is required to counter Cavalry, as Lancer is... weaker than it

- Bazooka fits here much more than into Ranged Line. Range 2 for AT gun and bazooka makes these untis much more useful.

- Helicopters IRL are the most modern anti tank unit

RECON LINE

Spoiler :

Scout - 5S, no terrain cost
Adventurer - available on Compass, 10S, no terrain cost/bonuses while embarked/sight I and survival
Explorer - available on Archeology, 20S, no terrain cost/can enter other civs territory/sight I and survival/can dig archeologic sites and is not disbanded afterwards (but digging takes MUCH time)
Commando - basically Paratrooper but available one tech earlier. Retains sight/survival promotions but now earns melee promotons.
Spec Ops - replaces useless Marine, available at Athomic Theory. Expensive, cannot take cities and has penalty against armor. Otherwise... 100 combat strenght, 3 move, ignores all possible terrain/borders penalties, paradrops 2x further than apratrooper and can attack after paradrop.
XCOM

Previously Scout was poor and alone and game seriously lacked late exploration units. Also, this system gets rid of useless Marine unit and turn it into Spec Ops awesomeness.

NAVAL UNITS

Spoiler :

[1 - first upgrade line, 2 - second line]
1) Galley - available on Sailing, 11 melee/14 ranged S, 4 movement
2) Trireme - Optics, 15 melee S, 4 movement
1) Galleas - Compass, 14 melee/18 ranged S, 3 movement
2) Carrack [Caravel] - Astronomy, 20 melee S, 5 movement, big sight and can move after attack
1) Galleon - Astronomy, 18 melee and 23 ranged S, 4 movement, city attack bonus
2) Privateer - Navigation, 25 melee, 5 movement, city attack and ship convert bonuses
1) Frigate - Navigation, 22 melee and 26 ranged S, 4 movement
2) Ironclad - Steam Power, 40 melee, 3 movement, bonus city attack, expensive as hell
1) Battleship - similar to BNW
2) Destroyer - similar to BNW
1) Missile Cruiser - similar to BNW
2) Cruiser - ...ship which counters Missile Cruiser, weak to Submarines

Separate: Submarine - Nuclear Submarine

Not sure about exact combat strenght numbers but the general idea is: this system balances Galleas/Frigate/Missile Cruiser and makes early navy possible to capture cities.

And now... I never liked the fact that capturing the city ALWAYS kill half of its population no matter what. Hey, I am not always Adolf Hitler
This improves immersion, allows on more strategical choices and makes 'population losses during wars' more diversified:

2) MORE OPTIONS WHILE CONQUERING CITIES

Spoiler :

1) Liberate [your own civ/city state/other civilisations' city] - no population loss, no warmongering penalty, bonus culture

2) Puppet [25% population and buildings loss, 100% of BNW gold bonus, light W penalty]

3) Plunder [40% population and 60% of building loss, 200% of BNW gold bonus, medium W penalty]

4) Massacre [75% population and 40% building loss, now city doesn't require courthouse [survivors are too terrified to resists your power], 100% of BNW bold bonus, heavy W penalty]

5) Raze [city razed, 100% of population dead, 200% of BNW gold bonus, very heavy W penalty]

Liberate cities if they belonged to you or wanna liberate other AI
Puppet if you prefer slowers bur more stable conquest
Plunder if you need gold
Massacre if you really wanna have this city but don't like the unhappiness...
Raze if you are conquering Alexander or Hiawatha

PARTISANS

If one civilisations conquers other civ's city, and the city was Looted or Massacred, partisans belonging to this civ can spawn in 2 tile radius from city. They don't suffer on attrition [look below] and although they are rather weak they have massive attack bonus against cities. They can only liberate cities and disband after achieving that.

Partisans ALWAYS spawn if the city is being razed - obviously they are desperately trying to save the population from genocide

3) ATTRITION SYSTEM

Spoiler :

FRIENDLY LANDS

Inside borders of own nation, friendly/allied city state or foreign civ with open borders units behave normally - they don't suffer on attrition but they cost maintenance [state equippes them to prevent from plundering friendly lands!], they can fortify.

NEUTRAL LANDS

Units outside of anyone's borders behave normally... For the first 10 turns after leaving civilisation borders. Afterwards, when they consume all their supplies, they have decreased maintenance cost [they cannot be equipped as easily] but they suffer on attrition.

Attrition rate is very low (something like -1/2/3HP per turn) but constant. It is increased in tundra, snow, deserts and jungles.

Units in neutral lands cannot simply fortify and regenerate their HP! They can fortify only on:
- tiles with food resources [truffles, deers, ivory, furs, wine, citrus, wheat, cattle, sheep, bananas, spices, sugar, horses]
- tiles adjacent to lakes, rivers, oasis or natural wonders
- on all these tiles they don't lose health and can regenerate via fortyfying.

ENEMY LANDS

Units on enemy territory have even lower maintenance cost but they not only suffer on attrition but also - while they can fortify - they don't regenerate HP via fortifications, even on food/fresh water tiles.

Instead, they don't lose health on tiles with enemy tile improvements - as they use enemy resources. Tile pillaging also is very handy. Defenders, on the other hand, can perofrm Scorched Earth tactic - pillage their own tile improvements to destroy enemy via attrition.

Units can regenerate health via fortifying only when they are inside great general radius. [???]

Medic promotions or quickly capturing enemy city is recommended.

Some units, like Special Forces, don't suffer on attrition on enemy lands.

SUMMARY

Exploration of the lands now requires way more strategy than before as units aren't superheroes who can mysteriously heal everywhere. Deserts, jungles, tundra and polar regions become dangerous. +10 to strategy and tactics.

On the other hand, this paradoxally buffs early warmongering as it allows on decreasing army maintenance - this is pretty historical, army which has nothing to do is dangerous

 

[Kerfuffle]

Attrition seems like a bit too much micro in the base game imo, but I will say it'd be very fitting in certain scenarios.

As for the plundering option for city capture, how about if it doesn't capture the city at all? It sacks a majority of the enemy's buildings and you get a huge sum of gold (the more buildings they have, the more gold for you).This'd be a good option for people who don't really want the AI enemy's cities, especially if war was declared on the player by the AI (why does everyone keep invading me in the early game when I turtle as Babylon... I mean I have WoB in every city, the Great Wall and a grand legion of archers and pikes )

Though I guess in various cases, owning the city at the end of it would be a better thing overall. That and it'd be open for abuse by people in need of quick cash *cough* totally not me *cough*

 

[Neirai]

Something to think about when you are talking about things to do when you "capture" cities:

In history what would sometimes happen is that an attacker would not want the city (because it was too far and too much hassle) but did not care to destroy the city (because it produced wealth and was an easy target to sack over and over and over) and so would loot the city but leave it standing.

What if, say, plundering or massacring cities didn't capture the city?
What if, instead, it gained you bonuses, like stolen population and wealth and possibly techs, and also (if possible) caused fear in the hearts of the city's people?

 

[Krajzen]

Hm, interesting conception (just not sure if it is possible to make something like that)

Stolen Population
Stolen Culture/Science/Gold [boost]