If You Have a Moment

[animepornstar]

i think economy is the most powerful tool today and i´m leaving nukes outside:

1 usa - of course.

2 japan - economy

3 germany - economy

4 uk - economy + influence

5 france - economy + influence

6 italy - economy + making a lot of crap in eu

7 canada - economy

8 russia - uneven economy, but large army even if it has become a lot weaker.

9 china - weak economy but huge potential and population

10 india - large population, that´s all. weak economy and the army is still using mg42:s.

 

[Ohwell]

Originally posted by animepornstar
i think economy is the most powerful tool today and i´m leaving nukes outside:

Exactly. Militaries aren't inportant at all, look at US and Britain. Their economy is the power behind their war on terrorism. If I had took military out of mine Japan would be number one.

 

[PinkyGen]

Originally posted by Ohwell


Exactly. Militaries aren't inportant at all, look at US and Britain. Their economy is the power behind their war on terrorism. If I had took military out of mine Japan would be number one.

Actually, japan is only the world's second largest economy. The largest is the US. The US economy is also doing better than the Japanese, who have been caught in a recession for most of the 1990's.

But yes, if we are doing it solely by economy, Japan is right up there.

 

[andycapp]

Some interesting if not unusual answers so far, but I think the top ten is fairly obvious it's just the order that's arguable.

IMO Animepornstar had it pretty much right - the G8 plus China and India. Obviously I'm placing a heavier emphasis on the size of the economy, technological sophistication and nuclear capability. I think these will ultimately determine all the other factors.

I'd be interested to hear arguments for the inclusion of countries such as Australia, Israel, Spain, Sweden, Saudi Arabia ( ), Iran and Brazil etc, because I can't think of any that would justify their inclusion in the top ten.

Some of these countries might have nuclear weapons, and in Israel's case a formidable military, but they don't cut the mustard in other areas.

Anyway, here's my list:

1. USA

2. UK

3. France

4. China

5. Russia

6. Japan

7. Germany

8. India

9. Italy

10. Canada

The idea of living anywhere but in the land of Oz is quite foreign to me , however Italy would be bearable.

 

[Riker13]

Originally posted by Skulker
Why does everyone keep puting the UK on their list? They are at best a has been, second rate power. Not to be nasty or anything, it's just that Great Britain without her empire isn't so great. Now, her children, on the other hand....

This Survey is going very well so far and I thank you all for helping its been very interesting.

This reply is for Skulker, I know I am from the UK and I am trying to be non-Bias but I think you are correct that we are no longer as Powerful as we once were but we still have a quite a big Military and the will to use it as your Government mentioned the other day on CNN saying the United Kingdom seem to be the only country left in the World who Love to fight, well not too sure about that, but my Question to you involved Military, Financial and Influence, the Pound is pretty strong and I think you will agree that after Sept 11 Tony Blair done a bit of Diplomacy in getting countries on board to back the US.

But of course all opinions count, and I thank you for them

Regards to you All

 

[animepornstar]

Originally posted by andycapp

I'd be interested to hear arguments for the inclusion of countries such as Australia, Israel, Spain, Sweden, Saudi Arabia ( ), Iran and Brazil etc, because I can't think of any that would justify their inclusion in the top ten.

if it was most powerful per capita then would problary both sweden and israel be on the list.

 

[andycapp]

Originally posted by animepornstar


if it was most powerful per capita then would problary both sweden and israel be on the list.

If you are talking about per capita income Sweden maybe there abouts as would Australia but so would Brunei, Singapore and Switzerland. I don't think that is what was being asked in the original question. Neither Israel's per capita income or the size of it's economy would put it anywhere near the top ten.

Israel has a powerful military but is an economic minow.

 

[Magnus]

Originally posted by andycapp
I'd be interested to hear arguments for the inclusion of countries such as Australia, Israel, Spain, Sweden, Saudi Arabia ( ), Iran and Brazil etc, because I can't think of any that would justify their inclusion in the top ten.

I placed Brazil at #9 for several reasons:

First off they are #5 in world pop rank and #9 in world GDP rank. Their military budget is $13.4 billion, granted its a conventional force but they do support a large army. They are a strong regional power - the dominant Latin American country, and they have gotten their act together as of late, the instability that plagued them for decades has subsided and they are a strong and growing industrial nation.

I think people are overrating Israel on their lists, they have a big military per capita and also are a regional power in the middle east, but a country with a land mass the size of New Jersey and under 6 million people is just not a top ten power, in my opinion, nukes or not.

 

[amadeus]

I'd like to hear why France keeps popping up on people's lists...

Sure, they have nuclear weapons...would they ever use them? No.

They're on the U.N. Security Council as a permanent member, so what? If the U.S. wants to act unilaterally, they do. If Russia wants to act unilaterally, they do. If China wants to act unilaterally, they do. Who really cares what France thinks about us bombing Iraq, or, better yet, who cares what Mali thinks about sending troops to Kuwait?

France is a minor power, in my opinion, much like Italy and Spain.

 

[Magnus]

Originally posted by rmsharpe
I'd like to hear why France keeps popping up on people's lists...

Sure, they have nuclear weapons...would they ever use them? No.

They're on the U.N. Security Council as a permanent member, so what? If the U.S. wants to act unilaterally, they do. If Russia wants to act unilaterally, they do. If China wants to act unilaterally, they do. Who really cares what France thinks about us bombing Iraq, or, better yet, who cares what Mali thinks about sending troops to Kuwait?

France is a minor power, in my opinion, much like Italy and Spain.

Would ANYONE use nukes? No. That's why nukes are not nearly as important as they were when only a few countries had them, proliferation has reduced their impact (no pun intended ). I would be interested in seeing how you get such places as S. Korea, Saudi & Israel ahead of France, though.

 

[amadeus]

Saudi Arabia? Largest producer of oil in the world.

South Korea? 11th largest economy in the world. I'm quite aware it's smaller than France, but go back 100 years and see where Korea was then compared to France.

Isreal? They have a very strong tech sector, strong military, and some regional nuclear weapons.

 

[Magnus]

2000 data

Population:

France 59.330 million (21st)
Italy 57.364 million (22nd)
S Korea 47.471 million (25th)
S Arabia 22.024 million (46th)
Israel 5.842 million (98th)

GDP

France 1,327 billion (6th)
Italy 1.168 billion (8th)
S Korea 638 billion (13th)
S Arabia 182 billion (34th)
Israel 105 billion (38th)

Military Expenditures (could not discern world ranking)

France 39.8 billion
Italy 20.7 billion
S Arabia 18.3 billion
S Korea 12.0 billion
Israel 8.7 billion

Looks like a no brainer to me.

 

[amadeus]

South Korea is down to 13 now? Okay, I didn't know that...

 

[jssst21]

I would rank Korea, Israel,Taiwan and other 'hotspots' disproportionately high due to their ability to shape opinion and action throughout the world.
Taiwan, is able to draw a full US carrier group to its defense when China gets feisty with missle tests. America is certainly not doing this out of the goodness of its collective hearts. Taiwan has put itself in a position where it is one of the pivots upon which intl power balances.
Israel, much the same story. Massive international decisions are haggled over solely to benefit/detract from Israel. Korea and Pakistan, to a lesser extent are able to do this as well.

It all depends on how one views power. You don't always have to have the strongest hand to win the game. I would argue that these relatively small powers wield more impact over intl relations than France, for instance, which dwarfs them militarily and economically.

Power is more than money and guns in a world were war for conquest is no longer common.

 

[animepornstar]

about the french and their "small" influence. the swedish prime minister said this about one week after the wtc crashes: "damn luck we have the frenchmen, otherwise would the war already have begun."

 

[Kennelly]

Saudi Arabia,Israel,Australia,S-Korea are surely all regional powers,but I won´t count them in a Top 10 list,because all of them only have a top position in one category:Israel for example has a strong military and nukes,yes,but I won´t list a country with 6 million people in one line with countries like China or India.

So my list is:

1.USA (no doubt)

2.China (some nukes,biggest pop,#7 economy,strong military (even if it´s mostly from the Russians)

3.Russia (many nukes,big pop,with Putin economy begins to prosper,still great military,giant potential in the east)

4.Japan (big pop,#2 economy,military is building up (more own technology)

5.UK (average pop,#5,nukes,strong military,big intl influence)

6.Germany (bigger pop,#3 economy,mostly behind UK cos our military and influence is way behind)

7.France (average pop,#6 economy,some nukes,influence concentrated in Africa,but is declining there,strong military,but the Foch was shut inoperable by German gunboats in maneuver and the Charles DeGaulle left harbour way behind the timetable)

8.Brazil (big pop,leading power in Latin America,#9 economy,strong military,trying to get SSNs)

9.Italy (average pop,#7 economy,good military,little influence out of Europe)

10.India (2nd biggest pop,still weak economy,but cities like Bangalore are top,nukes,average military,but is growing)

 

[andycapp]

Originally posted by Kennelly
Saudi Arabia,Israel,Australia,S-Korea are surely all regional powers,but I won´t count them in a Top 10 list,because all of them only have a top position in one category:Israel for example has a strong military and nukes,yes,but I won´t list a country with 6 million people in one line with countries like China or India.

I agree Kennelly, it's ludicrous to suggest Israel, Saudi Arabia, South Korea etc are more powerful (overall) than China, India or France etc.

I concede that a case can be made for Brazil, however I will stick with Canada at No.10 because it has a larger economy and is technologically more advanced than Brazil.

The question mark I have against Canada is whether it will remain as a single political entity or fragment as a result of the internal separatist pressure.

 

[Hamlet]

Firstly, The EU is not a state, (Yet) hence including it is pointless.

Now:

1) USA
2) China
3) Russia
4) UK
5) France
6) Germany
7) India
8) Japan
9) Israel
10) Brazil

Btw, China now has the 6th largest economy in the world, as it overtook Italy a while ago.

Also,

"France is a minor power, in my opinion, much like Italy and Spain.

Sure, they have nuclear weapons...would they ever use them? No. "

Is such a stupid statement, it barely deserves a response.

You are aware that France is:

- Probably the strongest military power in Europe after The UK. (Or arguably roughly equal)
- The 5th largest economy in the world.
- Diplomatically strong, and highly influenetial within The EU and outside of it.
- A permanent security council member.

How, therefore you can classify it in The same league as Spain and Italy is beyond me.

 

[andycapp]

Originally posted by Hamlet

Now:

1) USA
2) China
3) Russia
4) UK
5) France
6) Germany
7) India
8) Japan
9) Israel
10) Brazil

Hamlet, I agree with you regarding France, but how can you justify the inclusion of Israel at the expense of either Italy or Canada?

Israel has a tiny population and economy, and as Kennelly pointed out is a regional power not a world power. And due to the pressure from the Arab and Muslim nations has very little diplomatic clout, with the important exception of the US.

I think people are grossly over estimating Israel's status.

 

[Hamlet]

Originally posted by andycapp
Hamlet, I agree with you regarding France, but how can you justify the inclusion of Israel at the expense of either Italy or Canada?

Israel has a tiny population and economy, and as Kennelly pointed out is a regional power not a world power. And due to the pressure from the Arab and Muslim nations has very little diplomatic clout, with the important exception of the US.

I think people are grossly over estimating Israel's status.

Just for starters, if it makes you feel any better then I would put Canada at number 11 and Italy at number 12.

I put Israel in there because, as you point out it has nukes and has the support of The US, possibly to a unwarranted extent.

I would argue that it's situation actually gives it more diplomatic power than it would have otherwise: lets face it, it's going to have a lot of support from The US, until god knows when, and in combination with it's nukes and military, it's largely unstoppable, regionally. It's going to have a good deal of influence over US actions and policy in the middle east for a long time.

True, it's power is regional rather than global, but when you look at it, it has to potential to influence decisions which will have global effects as a result of it's location. Also, could you really seriously claim Italy or Canada to be truely 'global' powers?

Perhaps I'm overstating the case somewhat, but Israel will always have things that mark it out as having more influence and stature than it really deserves, something which I can't say for Canada or Italy.