University, though I'd be comfortable enough with the Gaians or Peacekeepers. Or Drones/maybe Data angels in SMAX. Knowledge and individual freedom appeal to me most. Cult and Believers don't allow real freedom of thought, same for Cybers in a different way. Yang and Spartans don't seem likely to give much freedom of lifestyle choice, all part of a vast machine. And Morgan is waaay too materialistic for my taste. Though if your question was phrased differently, I could see the temptation of Userpers.. "Risks of Flowering: considerable. But rewards of godhood: who can measure?". Still, doable as any of the others, and probably a much better life in the meantime.
If You Were On The USS Unity...
- Thread starter MilesBeyond
- Start date
stannis
Technically a teacher
I see the "Miriam is against technology" canard is still being trotted out. In truth, like many religious people, she is against the misapplication of technology ("it was never the streets that were evil") and the various effects that this has on society and morality. As for her faction's violence, it's true that she is an aggressive leader - but she is hardly the only one, so I don't think it should be held against quite as much as some people do.
If I were standing in front of the escape pods on the Unity, I am really not sure who I would pick. At that point in the story, there would have been little way to know how the various faction societies would develop. All the faction leaders would have seemed quite reasonable and worthy of attention.
If I wanted an easy life, I probably would have chosen Lal - but his "human rights" blather is so dull, and anyway, humanitarianism is often a smokescreen for hypocritical secret agendas. Morgan is too ruthlessly capitalist and materialist for me. Zakharov is appealing, but his lack of concern for morality could lead to his society becoming a nightmarish place. Santiago is cool and I would feel safer in her faction, but I don't like the idea of a society based solely on war and competition. Deirdre... sorry, greenies do nothing for me, although I admire her spiritual outlook. Yang's totalitarianism holds little appeal, I don't want to live in a 22nd century North Korea.
That leaves Miriam - if I thought that she was going to avoid the extremes of theocracy, I probably would have joined her. A nation based on the solidarity of belief, meaningful existence and spiritual wealth, rather than nihilism, statism or capitalism.
If I were standing in front of the escape pods on the Unity, I am really not sure who I would pick. At that point in the story, there would have been little way to know how the various faction societies would develop. All the faction leaders would have seemed quite reasonable and worthy of attention.
If I wanted an easy life, I probably would have chosen Lal - but his "human rights" blather is so dull, and anyway, humanitarianism is often a smokescreen for hypocritical secret agendas. Morgan is too ruthlessly capitalist and materialist for me. Zakharov is appealing, but his lack of concern for morality could lead to his society becoming a nightmarish place. Santiago is cool and I would feel safer in her faction, but I don't like the idea of a society based solely on war and competition. Deirdre... sorry, greenies do nothing for me, although I admire her spiritual outlook. Yang's totalitarianism holds little appeal, I don't want to live in a 22nd century North Korea.
That leaves Miriam - if I thought that she was going to avoid the extremes of theocracy, I probably would have joined her. A nation based on the solidarity of belief, meaningful existence and spiritual wealth, rather than nihilism, statism or capitalism.
magic9mushroom
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 3, 2012
- Messages
- 43
Well, I'm an atheist, so Miriam's right out. I'm not even going to discuss Aki or Roze because their societies don't make any sense as described.
Early on, the Gaians seemed alright, but later on they ended up in a hivemind. Kinda creepy.
Yang is an Ubermensch. If there was one guy I had to pick to be dictator it would probably be him, but I'm not so sure I'd want anyone to be dictator at all.
Zakharov... Mad scientists. Despite pursuing an academic career myself I'm not entirely sure this is the best model to base a society on.
Under Morgan I'd likely wind up dead. Nice ideology, nasty applications.
Ditto under Sparta, except that the ideology is rotten to the core. Santiago deserved her screaming death.
Lal's certainly the "whitest" of the original factions, and I'd likely pick him just for the safety net.
Centauri: the Arrival Svensgaard could write Santiago's speeches, while game-quote Svensgaard seems like a nice enough farmer guy.
Domai and the Drones are nice enough but I'd get Tall Poppy Syndromed.
I don't feel like being fed to Mind Worms by a half-alien child, even if he is right about Planet.
Early on, the Gaians seemed alright, but later on they ended up in a hivemind. Kinda creepy.
Yang is an Ubermensch. If there was one guy I had to pick to be dictator it would probably be him, but I'm not so sure I'd want anyone to be dictator at all.
Zakharov... Mad scientists. Despite pursuing an academic career myself I'm not entirely sure this is the best model to base a society on.
Under Morgan I'd likely wind up dead. Nice ideology, nasty applications.
Ditto under Sparta, except that the ideology is rotten to the core. Santiago deserved her screaming death.
Lal's certainly the "whitest" of the original factions, and I'd likely pick him just for the safety net.
Centauri: the Arrival Svensgaard could write Santiago's speeches, while game-quote Svensgaard seems like a nice enough farmer guy.
Domai and the Drones are nice enough but I'd get Tall Poppy Syndromed.
I don't feel like being fed to Mind Worms by a half-alien child, even if he is right about Planet.
Even though I prefer playing as Deirdre, I don't think I'd join the Gaians. I like my environmentally unsound creature comforts a bit too much. 
I might actually consider joining Yang or Miriam.
Even though I understand aspects of modern technology better than most people do, I dislike how people abuse technology (don't get me started on smartphones, and how they turn people into complete jerks!) and cripple themselves as a result. Sounds like I might fit in with Miriam, yes?
Also, according to Centauri Dawn, it seems like Miriam gets a lot of people that had severe health issues from the cryo sleep or injuries related to turmoil started by Santiago's people. In other words, VERY unlucky people. I'm a pretty unfortunate guy, so I might be with Miriam because I had no choice, ha.
Secondary choices? Perhaps Lal. After all, I signed up for this mission under the auspices of the United Nations, and he's the only one trying to abide by the original charter.
Here's a related question: What if Captain Garland had survived and made Planetfall? How would that have changed the storyline? Please, try and answer with something more creative than "everything would be exactly the same, except Garland would head the Peacekeepers, not Lal trolololol."
I might actually consider joining Yang or Miriam.
Even though I understand aspects of modern technology better than most people do, I dislike how people abuse technology (don't get me started on smartphones, and how they turn people into complete jerks!) and cripple themselves as a result. Sounds like I might fit in with Miriam, yes?
Also, according to Centauri Dawn, it seems like Miriam gets a lot of people that had severe health issues from the cryo sleep or injuries related to turmoil started by Santiago's people. In other words, VERY unlucky people. I'm a pretty unfortunate guy, so I might be with Miriam because I had no choice, ha.
Secondary choices? Perhaps Lal. After all, I signed up for this mission under the auspices of the United Nations, and he's the only one trying to abide by the original charter.
Here's a related question: What if Captain Garland had survived and made Planetfall? How would that have changed the storyline? Please, try and answer with something more creative than "everything would be exactly the same, except Garland would head the Peacekeepers, not Lal trolololol."
magic9mushroom
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 3, 2012
- Messages
- 43
Well, Santiago and whoever sent the assassin (unless that was also Santiago) would go their separate ways. Deirdre and Miriam would fall in line, while Yang and Morgan wouldn't (Garland tried to have both of them arrested) and Zak would, as usual, push things.
It's kind of weird, I've only recently started playing this so I haven't been traumatized by the AI Miriam in an actual game.
But from the game Lore (from what I've gathered) I find the Gaians repulsive and just as monstrous in their actual behavior as any other faction.
Conversely I think I find the Believers to be the most admirable faction, at least as regards a genuine concern for their fellow humans (not Centauri life obviously, but I think their attitude results from a real inability to understand anything about that life).
And I say that as someone who believes in environmentalism, and is not religious.
I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable of the storyline as others, but reading the threads and watching youtube videos it seems to me the Gaians and University are the bad guys. Out of all the faction leaders I am philosophically most opposed to Morgan, but I don't have as negative a reaction to him and his philosophies as I do to Deirdre and Zakharov. I agree most with Lal out of all of them, but he is just kind of boring. I don't care at all for Santiago or Yang's philosophies, though Yang is definitely an interesting personality.
I'm nowhere near finishing a game, but since I've been spoilered, I find the Transcendence ending to be unfulfilling. I know it didn't fit the scope of the game, but the interaction between the factions and their philosophies is far more interesting to me than an implementation of the "Singularity." That just seems to me a lazy ending in a lot of ways. I think for me the most profound ending of that nature would have been for all the factions to have suddenly been made aware of the nature of Planet, as well as Planet being now knowledgeable of humanities nature.
I think a "What now?" ending would have been best. I could easily imagine all the surviving factions electing to move on yet again to yet other star systems, which I think could have been easily done with the technologies around at the end of the game.
Or heck, just move into space directly in the Alpha Centauri system.
But from the game Lore (from what I've gathered) I find the Gaians repulsive and just as monstrous in their actual behavior as any other faction.
Conversely I think I find the Believers to be the most admirable faction, at least as regards a genuine concern for their fellow humans (not Centauri life obviously, but I think their attitude results from a real inability to understand anything about that life).
And I say that as someone who believes in environmentalism, and is not religious.
I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable of the storyline as others, but reading the threads and watching youtube videos it seems to me the Gaians and University are the bad guys. Out of all the faction leaders I am philosophically most opposed to Morgan, but I don't have as negative a reaction to him and his philosophies as I do to Deirdre and Zakharov. I agree most with Lal out of all of them, but he is just kind of boring. I don't care at all for Santiago or Yang's philosophies, though Yang is definitely an interesting personality.
I'm nowhere near finishing a game, but since I've been spoilered, I find the Transcendence ending to be unfulfilling. I know it didn't fit the scope of the game, but the interaction between the factions and their philosophies is far more interesting to me than an implementation of the "Singularity." That just seems to me a lazy ending in a lot of ways. I think for me the most profound ending of that nature would have been for all the factions to have suddenly been made aware of the nature of Planet, as well as Planet being now knowledgeable of humanities nature.
I think a "What now?" ending would have been best. I could easily imagine all the surviving factions electing to move on yet again to yet other star systems, which I think could have been easily done with the technologies around at the end of the game.
Or heck, just move into space directly in the Alpha Centauri system.
magic9mushroom
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 3, 2012
- Messages
- 43
Miriam and her followers committed mass suicide in the fluff. You were saying?
Besides, what you describe as "a good ending" does happen in SMAC - the Voice of Planet is exactly making Planet understand humanity.
Besides, what you describe as "a good ending" does happen in SMAC - the Voice of Planet is exactly making Planet understand humanity.
Yeah, but then you have to become a part of Planet. You could say the 300 committed mass suicide too, or the defenders of the Alamo. Or Thomas Beckett or Socrates as individuals.
You can win the game other ways than Transcendence. But if you think about it, Transcendence is the only way things can end. Even if you eliminate all your rivals Planet isn't going away. Realistically you are going to have to come to some agreement with Planet, and what exactly do you have to offer it, besides something like Transcendence?
I just find the ending kind of unsatisfactory. They could easily have had a number of different ways to end it, even other ways of achieving the "Singularity," with all the technology developed in the game.
You can win the game other ways than Transcendence. But if you think about it, Transcendence is the only way things can end. Even if you eliminate all your rivals Planet isn't going away. Realistically you are going to have to come to some agreement with Planet, and what exactly do you have to offer it, besides something like Transcendence?
I just find the ending kind of unsatisfactory. They could easily have had a number of different ways to end it, even other ways of achieving the "Singularity," with all the technology developed in the game.
magic9mushroom
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 3, 2012
- Messages
- 43
Well, I can guarantee you 100% that winning as Caretakers doesn't result in Transcendence.
Tambien
Theseus, Duke of Athens
Lal all the way!
I'd go with Lal even though I usually play as Diedre.
The reason is that Lal is the only society that strikes me as free and tolerant, you can fit in regardless of your religious or political views. You will not be severly shunned, imprisoned or punished for dissent.
The reason is that Lal is the only society that strikes me as free and tolerant, you can fit in regardless of your religious or political views. You will not be severly shunned, imprisoned or punished for dissent.
Robert Can't
Éponine
I think I'd have to go with the good sister Miriam on this one.
Chances are that as I'd be standing there on the unity as it was breaking up in orbit, a militant faction having irreparably damaged the ship and explosions and stuff going on all around. Being not the most courageous of people I think I'd go to the place were I'd feel safest, most comfortable. I think that that place would be with the Chaplain/psychiatrist so I think that's where I'd be in that situation.
Overall, I defiantly wouldn't pick Morgan, Deidre or Yang as they seem to have the most dystopian regimes with Morgan running some capitalistic Jenifer Government style nation, Deidre being plain evil as indicated by her 'Secret war' and though I damire some of Yang's philosophy I don't like the Orwellian Obliteration of Self.
Although I don't see much inherently wrong with Lal he does come across as being a bit underhand and the kind to engage in subterfuge under a facade of humanitarianism. I sometimes find it hard to find conviction in those speeches he has about Free Flow of Information and MMI.
I wouldn't last one minute in Santiago's regime as I'm also an outspoken pacifist and a sometime coward. And something tells me that those aren't appreciated qualities in a Spartan.
So that leaves the two factions that I think I'd feel most comfortable in. The university, despite its sometime lack of ethics, has a definite appeals as it aspires towards a goal of learning and flow of information, even more so that Lal. The Believers, though some of them may be a bit 'enthusiastic', do seem to have a fully reasonable leader; as pointed out earlier she isn't a technophobe, merely is concerned about humanity's use of technology and I think in that way she seems more humanitarian that Lal who just let it all happen, showing again he isn't what he claims to be.
Chances are that as I'd be standing there on the unity as it was breaking up in orbit, a militant faction having irreparably damaged the ship and explosions and stuff going on all around. Being not the most courageous of people I think I'd go to the place were I'd feel safest, most comfortable. I think that that place would be with the Chaplain/psychiatrist so I think that's where I'd be in that situation.
Overall, I defiantly wouldn't pick Morgan, Deidre or Yang as they seem to have the most dystopian regimes with Morgan running some capitalistic Jenifer Government style nation, Deidre being plain evil as indicated by her 'Secret war' and though I damire some of Yang's philosophy I don't like the Orwellian Obliteration of Self.
Although I don't see much inherently wrong with Lal he does come across as being a bit underhand and the kind to engage in subterfuge under a facade of humanitarianism. I sometimes find it hard to find conviction in those speeches he has about Free Flow of Information and MMI.
I wouldn't last one minute in Santiago's regime as I'm also an outspoken pacifist and a sometime coward. And something tells me that those aren't appreciated qualities in a Spartan.
So that leaves the two factions that I think I'd feel most comfortable in. The university, despite its sometime lack of ethics, has a definite appeals as it aspires towards a goal of learning and flow of information, even more so that Lal. The Believers, though some of them may be a bit 'enthusiastic', do seem to have a fully reasonable leader; as pointed out earlier she isn't a technophobe, merely is concerned about humanity's use of technology and I think in that way she seems more humanitarian that Lal who just let it all happen, showing again he isn't what he claims to be.
Ailedhoo
wonderer
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2012
- Messages
- 7,798
If I was on the USS Unity... who would I have joined?
Out of the original 7...
I am a anti-capitalist so Morgan is out of the picture.
As awesome and wise he is... I am not a fan of Yang's form of goverment.
I am a big beliver in securalism: so no to Miriam.
War cultures are something I do not want to be in. Hence a no to the Spartans.
Deidre seems a nice figure but the use of mind worms... is immoral.
I like science. I like progress. The University would be my second choice, although their... "tests" is of a concern.
My primal choice of the primal 7 is Lal. Clue in my signature
For the 5 human factions from Alien Crossfire: the cult is just... creepy, pirates are cool untill their unlawfulness comes at your cost and the cyborgs are wise but their focus on logic above all else can get illogical in some areas.
The second choice here be the Angels due to the cyberpunk plus a strong will but my first from the expanstion... and ALL the factions in the entire game... would be the Drones.
Socialism for the win!
Out of the original 7...
I am a anti-capitalist so Morgan is out of the picture.
As awesome and wise he is... I am not a fan of Yang's form of goverment.
I am a big beliver in securalism: so no to Miriam.
War cultures are something I do not want to be in. Hence a no to the Spartans.
Deidre seems a nice figure but the use of mind worms... is immoral.
I like science. I like progress. The University would be my second choice, although their... "tests" is of a concern.
My primal choice of the primal 7 is Lal. Clue in my signature
For the 5 human factions from Alien Crossfire: the cult is just... creepy, pirates are cool untill their unlawfulness comes at your cost and the cyborgs are wise but their focus on logic above all else can get illogical in some areas.
The second choice here be the Angels due to the cyberpunk plus a strong will but my first from the expanstion... and ALL the factions in the entire game... would be the Drones.
Socialism for the win!
At the time I wouldn't know there would be drones and all that, so Zak would be the obvious choice, since my goal in life is to learn as much as possible.
Lal is nice but before it crashed I'm sure his ideology would not appear very stunning. My second choice.
Unlike most I'd support Morgan, but it depends on how you interpret his society. A huge mega corporation, or a free market-capitalist utopia where Morgan's business is simply the most powerful and rich? I would only reluctantly rally behind the former, whereas the latter sounds pretty great to me.
Deirde, I suppose in the heat of the moment (guys, we wouldn't have had much time to choose) I'd of made the same mistake as the people on Earth before and said "Long term ecosystem? Whatevs." There are much more interesting choices.
Miriam, if I was forced to choose between her and Yang and Santagio, it'd be her no question but I'd have to fake Christianity. She is fairly reasonable though.
Santagio, I'd probably die in her regime but at least I'd die free *cough cough* YANG *cough cough*
I would NEVER join Yang, put a gun to my head and I'd choose the gun. I value freedom and independence of thought far too much to ever follow him.
Lal is nice but before it crashed I'm sure his ideology would not appear very stunning. My second choice.
Unlike most I'd support Morgan, but it depends on how you interpret his society. A huge mega corporation, or a free market-capitalist utopia where Morgan's business is simply the most powerful and rich? I would only reluctantly rally behind the former, whereas the latter sounds pretty great to me.
Deirde, I suppose in the heat of the moment (guys, we wouldn't have had much time to choose) I'd of made the same mistake as the people on Earth before and said "Long term ecosystem? Whatevs." There are much more interesting choices.
Miriam, if I was forced to choose between her and Yang and Santagio, it'd be her no question but I'd have to fake Christianity. She is fairly reasonable though.
Santagio, I'd probably die in her regime but at least I'd die free *cough cough* YANG *cough cough*
I would NEVER join Yang, put a gun to my head and I'd choose the gun. I value freedom and independence of thought far too much to ever follow him.
Perfection
The Great Head.
I'd go with my penis basing my entire decision off of dating opportunities:
7. Human Hive - I have no idea what sort of crazy stuff would be going on here. Ultimately though, I suspect it wouldn't be much fun so that's that.
6. Morganites - most the women there would be randroids, ubermaterialistic or both. I'm sure if I wanted to I could get in their pants but ick. I'd probably have to fight more business savy folks too. Not fun.
5. Spartans - The girls would be spicy, which is a plus, but I'm no warrior so I might not get much attention. On the other hand, while the warriors are out...
4. University - I'd probably have to go against a ratio, but plenty of nerdy girls. "Hey, wanna expirment?"
3. Believers - wouldn't be too bad. I'm sure there'd be a good deal of women to choose from. They probably wouldn't be that spicy and we'd be popping tots left and right but I'm pretty sure I'd have some good times. The religious girl aspect is kinda annoying, but not as bad as randroids. The constant war might make polygamy a possibility, interesting!
2. Peacekeepers - Lal probably took the medical staff with him, which means cute medical profressionals galore. Delicious! And let's face it girls are more into peace then men. I got ratio on my side.
1. Gaians - I'm pretty sure the faction is 75% free-spirited girls. Goodness what fun could be had. Totally worth having to recycle. Now if only I could get them to shave their underarms...
7. Human Hive - I have no idea what sort of crazy stuff would be going on here. Ultimately though, I suspect it wouldn't be much fun so that's that.
6. Morganites - most the women there would be randroids, ubermaterialistic or both. I'm sure if I wanted to I could get in their pants but ick. I'd probably have to fight more business savy folks too. Not fun.
5. Spartans - The girls would be spicy, which is a plus, but I'm no warrior so I might not get much attention. On the other hand, while the warriors are out...
4. University - I'd probably have to go against a ratio, but plenty of nerdy girls. "Hey, wanna expirment?"
3. Believers - wouldn't be too bad. I'm sure there'd be a good deal of women to choose from. They probably wouldn't be that spicy and we'd be popping tots left and right but I'm pretty sure I'd have some good times. The religious girl aspect is kinda annoying, but not as bad as randroids. The constant war might make polygamy a possibility, interesting!
2. Peacekeepers - Lal probably took the medical staff with him, which means cute medical profressionals galore. Delicious! And let's face it girls are more into peace then men. I got ratio on my side.
1. Gaians - I'm pretty sure the faction is 75% free-spirited girls. Goodness what fun could be had. Totally worth having to recycle. Now if only I could get them to shave their underarms...
attackfighter
Emperor
The colonists aboard the Unity would have been in stasis. It's a 50 year flight after all.
So chances are you wouldn't have gotten to choose which faction to join. Chances are that you'd have been in cryogenic sleep when the colony pod you were on was ejected and crash landed on Chiron. The leader of your faction would have been chosen sometime around then, as you and the other colonists realised that they needed a leader. The leader could have been chosen through any variety of ways - for example Santiago and a cadre of supporters could have bullied their way to power, while Lal could have been elected leader through popular support.
Also I just realised something: the U.N. Charter probably doesn't mention anything about 500 year old autocrats running the show... so Lal isn't entirely faithful to it
So chances are you wouldn't have gotten to choose which faction to join. Chances are that you'd have been in cryogenic sleep when the colony pod you were on was ejected and crash landed on Chiron. The leader of your faction would have been chosen sometime around then, as you and the other colonists realised that they needed a leader. The leader could have been chosen through any variety of ways - for example Santiago and a cadre of supporters could have bullied their way to power, while Lal could have been elected leader through popular support.
Also I just realised something: the U.N. Charter probably doesn't mention anything about 500 year old autocrats running the show... so Lal isn't entirely faithful to it
Snownova
Warlord
Respectfully I must disagree, go read "Journey to Centauri", the official intro story at www.firaxis.com/smac/assets/journey.rtf
All the cryocells opened just before the landing pods launched, thus people had a choice of which to enter.
That said here's my rationale:
Gaians: I like their philosophy, and exploring psionics with them would be fun, but I like my creature comforts too much.
Morgan: I do love my creature comforts, but I'm not a very financially driven person, so I doubt I could flourish in their society.
Yang: Nah-uh, I like freedom and privacy a bit too much.
Sparta: I'm not exactly a top physical specimen of humanity and I abhor violence.
Lal: Seems ok, I'd probably do well there, but a bit too meh for my tastes.
Believers: As an hardcore Atheist I must decline.
University: These are my peeps! I rather like their knowledge before morality attitude and having a ruling class of smart people is very appealing to me.
Kilkakon
King
I think that's cheating. Next we'll be having people joining strange pokemon factions!
Next we'll be having people joining strange pokemon factions!Hands down Miriam or Spartan, if I were aboard the Unity. But this is because I am going to be one of the first to land on planet, when the mind worms are unheard of (to everyone else), it is unknown whether the other factions survived (except, again, to me I guess) and we don't have a terraformer to our name. The first cities on planet are foodless, friendless and surrounded by unknown terrain and hellish-nightmare creatures. I would want to be with the people with the most guns and training.
