I'm just not getting Philosophical

[Aldin]

I hope someone would be willing to explain the benefit of this trait to me (outside of the half-priced buildings). The problem is that every time I crunch the numbers I get the same result, namely that the best possible result of +100%GP birth rate is one extra GP over the course of the entire game (vs. an otherwise identical civ without Philo).

My conclusion is based on my understanding that each subsequent GP costs double the birth points of the previous one. Since the generic Philo City will always have double the birth points of the non-Philo one they will always be exactly one GP ahead (this holds essentially true regardless of how many different cities are generating GP birth points). Granted, they will get their first GP, well, first. Still, adding +x% GP birth rate improvements make the differential worse, not better. You'll still be ahead of your non-Philo counterpart, but you will wait longer and longer between the time they get their nth GP and you get your (n+1)th GP.

Is there some glitch in my understanding of this trait? Any enlightenment would be greatly appreciated!

~Aldin

 

[Aeson]

My conclusion is based on my understanding that each subsequent GP costs double the birth points of the previous one.

I'm not exactly sure of the progression off the top of my head, but it's something like +100 for the first 10, +200 for the next 10... ect.

 

[petey]

It gets you the GP that much quicker. Note the differences in creation in a city that has 5 GPPs:

Non-philosophical:
1st GP - 20 turns
2nd GP - 60 turns
3rd GP - 120 turns
4th GP - 200 turns

Philosophical (ups it to 10 GPPs a turn):
1st GP - 10 turns
2nd GP - 30 turns
3rd GP - 60 turns
4th GP - 100 turns

The time it takes gets longer, so there's less effect to it during the later stages of the game, but Great People are also much less effective later in the game. You get a Great Prophet to build your shrine in half the time, so that's extra turns making income off that and the money's usually tight in the early stages, so this can help you finance more cities quicker, which has major cumulative effects. You get a Great Scientist to build your Academy in half the time, so that's extra research points to help compete with the AI's advantages.

It's not super-powered, but none of the traits are (except Financial), but Philosophical is one of the better ones, IMHO.

 

[Arathorn]

Yeah, the points to the next GPP don't double, they simply add 100. Also remember that in addition to more Great People, Philosophical civs will get their Great People earlier, for an earlier tech or longer specialist time or.....

Note: I'm not making any claims about balance here.

Arathorn

 

[jayeffaar]

1 extra gp in the course of the game? If you get +100 birth rate, wouldn't you get twice the number of GPs instead of one extra?

 

[Sparrowhawk]

1 extra gp in the course of the game? If you get +100 birth rate, wouldn't you get twice the number of GPs instead of one extra?

No. A +100% great person production rate means you get twice as many great person points (GPP). If the costs doubled every time (which they don't, as explained above), that would mean only one extra leader for the philosophical Civ. For example, if the 3rd great person cost 400gpp, and the 4th cost 800gpp, then the philosophical civ is going to get the 4th one the same the normal civ will get the 3rd one, and will remain only one great person ahead throughout the whole game by this same math, all other things being equal.

As it is, because the great people do increase in cost - just not double each time - the philosophical civ will get twice as many GPP as an identical non-philosophical civ, but not twice as many great people.

 

[Aldin]

Thanks all! Not sure how I got confused about the doubling thing, but the correction is MUCH appreciated

~Aldin

 

[NKVD]

actually its my fave...

 

[Zhukov]

1 extra GP... per city. That adds up. For every city that can generate a GP, you get an extra instant-wonder, or culture bomb, or tech, or trade-route or whatever. Surely this is non-trivial.

The fact that you get your GPs in half the time also counts for a lot! Rushing the right tech early on can translate to a huge lead later on if done right.

It's not as nice as Financial though, sure.

I think Organized is the least usefull one. Financial can make your more money then Organized can save you for all but the largest empires, and once you get so big that it matters, you can easily afford to just build Versailes/Courhouses/Forbidden Palace.

Spiritual is also of dubious worth - but it has it's use in some niche strategies.

But yeah - the serious traits are still Financial, Agresive, Industrious and Creative. This does kind of suck because for most games this limits your selection of civs you should be playing. (except for those Civs whose UU is just too awsome - traits be damned. Like Ceasar and his Praetorians who can kick all sorts of ass all the way to the middle age)

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Actually because of the increasing cost, the number of GPP requirted to get a particular number of Great people is best approximated by
# People^2=GPP required

(Gross oversimplificationbut the best one available)

so a 100% increase means about aa 40% increase in the total number available.