I'm trying to be a better player

[Arvedui]

OK, I'm a civ veteran, from the times of good old civ1. But I don't get to finish a lot of games because I'm too perfectionist, so, as soon as I realize that there was a flaw to my plan, I start over, supposedly having learned from my many previous mistakes. But what I want to discuss here are some things that I have read (probably on the war academy) and that I am trying to implement into my strategy, or really wondering if they are the best alternative. Here goes (I have beaten this game up to demigod, by the way, but lately I've been palying at monarch):

1. Never trade techs in the AI's turn. This is supposed to be some basic rule of thumb. But guess what happened to me: one civ came up to me on their turn, offering to trade techs. I refused. Then, as soon as it was my turn, I went to them to initiate the same trade; but then they already had what I had to offer. Obviously, after my refusal to trade, they went to someone else and made the same exchange, while I was left outside of the loop. What then, really, is the best thing to do?

2. I read somewhere that you should have more than one settler pump. Even the concept of a settler pump is kinda new to me, but OK (I had a cycle in which every city would do a bit of everything, including building settlers; now I know that specializing the cities is a lot better), back to the one settler pump: every time I have more than one city with a granary producing settlers, I end up expanding like I was some kind of AI, but without their production of units, which leads to my being very weak and prone to be overrun by anyone nearby, which always inevitably happens with this scenario. Which, then, is the best alternative: one or more settler pumps?

3. I know that in the early game I'm not supposed to waste my time building temples, only workers, settlers, and offensive/defensive units (and the occasional granary or barracks, I suppose). All right. But when am I supposed to build my temples and other expensive structures? Without temples or libraries, the AI turns on me like some cultural dreadnought, culture flipping my borders. How can I achieve a balance?

4. I also read that you should control unhappiness by adjusting the luxury slider, not by creating specialists (first, scientists, then, entertainers). But why? Is it possible that it really is better to adjust the slider only at the highest difficulty settings? Because at Monarch, it certainly feels like creating specialists is the better alternative.

These are my thoughts for the time being. Any discussion on the above topics would be very appreciated. Thanks.

 

[vmxa]

Those are reasonable concepts, but you always have to flexible. If you could do the same thing every game, the board would have shut down by now.

There are times when you do trade on the interium turn. Mainly if you keeping an eye on this and you have a tech to sell, you need to know how long to wait. If you are trying to acquire a tech, then no need to wait. Especially if the other civs mostly have it or they have no cash. A resource or a lux need not wait for your turn.

Multiple pumps are probably not needed on std maps, especially as you move up in levels.

Temples, hum, well at Monarch I would say if you are playing a builder style slip them in when you want, as the rex slows down. If you want to blitz, skip them or delay them until you need them. Use libs for culture.

Slider vs entertainer is on a cost basis mostly. Someone posted a nice comparison recently. I would say very early, use the slider regardless of the fact that it may be cheaper to use a joker. This is because you need pop working to expand.

Once you have a bunch of cities, it could be better to use specialist in some places. You just have to evaluate the trade off.

 

[Roso]

I like your questions - I don't know the answer of most of them. For N1 I wait till my turn if I am the only one who have this tech or the AI which wants to trade it cannot trade with others who have it (they are in war, don't know each other, or whatever...). Mostly I prefer libraries to temples so I start building libs after I advance to literature, and temples when I have time or need for cultural expanding. I always play on world with "all random" so it is possible that you could need more time then me to expand (if you do not play with all possible players). After literature I make a lot less setlers and expand mainly with war. BUT you should know that I play Emperor and till now do not have any won on it (last game I think because of very stupid mistake, but still it is not a win ).

 

[Hyronymus]

Nice topic, Arvedui. I guess it's all in how you want to play Civ. If you want to play a pefect game, an enjoying game or a high-score game: it's all up to you to decide. I recognize myself in your description of 'mixing production' in cities. I never have 1 settler pump but let each city just build 1 settler. First thing next in the queue is a temple and then a phalanx. Granaries are a nono for me, I love The Pyramids . When playing Monarch level building a temple early in the game comes in handy, discontent citizens appear quickly. I always choose to play enjoying games, knowing I'll win in the end (usually fairly easy). But the killing of enemies is just too much fun .

 

[SJ Frank]

I too think these are very good questions. Here are my thought about them:

1. The only thing that you could have done, I think, was to have checked for trade opportunities before the AI came-a-knocking. One lesson that I learned myself was to check F4 more often on higher difficulties.

2. I have two solutions to this problem: 1) During the expansion phase, focus more on the military. So if you see that you can build 2 settler pumps, then your 3rd and 4th cities should go to high shield areas and become military pumps. 2) React more strongly against enemy invasions. When a sneak attack comes, focus all of your efforts towards defense, switch everything to military, shutdown research, buy allies, rush troops.

3. I also have 2 solutions to this problem : 1) if you plan to play peacefully, then don't found cities with overlapping borders. There is an article in the War Academy regarding culture flips. According to the article, there are two things that will cause culture flips -- foreign citizens, and tiles within the native 21 tiles that are controlled by foreign culture, all other factors are just multipliers that make flips more likely. When you eliminate those two, there is zero chance of culture flips. So, back your border cities off by a few tiles, concede those disputed tiles to the AIs. The cost to you is just a few mostly corrupted tiles, the benefit is not having to worry about culture flips. 2) Solution #2: simple, make plans to whack the culturally overlapping cities .

4. Using the lux slider costs gold, using specialists cost food and shields. The question that I always ask myself is, "Am I willing to buy X food and X shield with X gold?" … but, this is not an easy question to answer, because the relative values of food, shield and gold changes through out the game.

Early in the game, during the expansion phase, food is paramount, nothing is more valuable. You should always avoid using specialist in those cities that matter to your expansion.

During the mid-game, after switching out of Despotism, you gain the ability to irrigate grasslands to get extra food, so food is not nearly as valuable anymore (note that if you have poor land, then food is still valuable). Here, shield becomes the major concern. You can look at the F1 screen for the cost of the lux tax, comparing it with the amount of shields lost by using specialists, and using the conversion rate of 4 gold for 1 shield (that’s the cost of hurrying production) to figure out if the lux tax is worth it.

Late in the game, after railroads and Industrialization, your cities are already at their max size, so food is worthless. The value of shield depend more on the shield breakpoints than anything else. 30spt and 44spt will both build an Infantry in 3 turns. This is when it makes sense to hire specialists in cities that don’t need the extra shields.

Then, there are few occasions in the game that make gold more valuable than anything else, like an important military treaty, an important tech, mass troop upgrade, etc. Subtleties like these is what makes this game so great, there is never a set pattern that will work in every game.

 

[ionimplant]

1. Never trade techs in the AI's turn. This is supposed to be some basic rule of thumb. But guess what happened to me: one civ came up to me on their turn, offering to trade techs. I refused. Then, as soon as it was my turn, I went to them to initiate the same trade; but then they already had what I had to offer. Obviously, after my refusal to trade, they went to someone else and made the same exchange, while I was left outside of the loop. What then, really, is the best thing to do?

if you've the monopoly of the tech the turn before, don't trade. even if next turn you find out everyone has the tech, it's just bad luck. it happens rarely that you and an AI get the same thing on the exactly same turn. but hold the trading till your turn will help you gain more gold

2. I read somewhere that you should have more than one settler pump. Even the concept of a settler pump is kinda new to me, but OK (I had a cycle in which every city would do a bit of everything, including building settlers; now I know that specializing the cities is a lot better), back to the one settler pump: every time I have more than one city with a granary producing settlers, I end up expanding like I was some kind of AI, but without their production of units, which leads to my being very weak and prone to be overrun by anyone nearby, which always inevitably happens with this scenario. Which, then, is the best alternative: one or more settler pumps?

it depends on the difficulty. but generally, having specialized cities means that you don't have to pay for all the buildings (only settler pump cities have granary and only military cities spend gold on barracks.)

3. I know that in the early game I'm not supposed to waste my time building temples, only workers, settlers, and offensive/defensive units (and the occasional granary or barracks, I suppose). All right. But when am I supposed to build my temples and other expensive structures? Without temples or libraries, the AI turns on me like some cultural dreadnought, culture flipping my borders. How can I achieve a balance?

again it depends on your purpose (100k, conquest, etc). generally early temples are useless because you can spend gpt to make citizens happy and the shield should be more wisely spent on your army. with a large empire, AI don't care too much about your culture.

4. I also read that you should control unhappiness by adjusting the luxury slider, not by creating specialists (first, scientists, then, entertainers). But why? Is it possible that it really is better to adjust the slider only at the highest difficulty settings? Because at Monarch, it certainly feels like creating specialists is the better alternative.

at the beginning, every citizen should contribute to your army or whatever game focus you have instead of making others happy or being scientists. later in the game, you will have more choice.
that's my 2cents

 

[catchsomezzz]

Hi Arvedui,

Here's my $0.02 for all they're worth.

1. Never trade techs in the AI's turn.

This rule only applies if the AI that made the trade offer does not know of any other AI that knows the tech they want.

Of course that's hard to know, since there's no way to switch in-game screens to check when they make the offer. I'd suggest you might want to try out the Civ Assist utility while running your game. It's a background program that collects and presents all the information available to you in very organized detail tabs. It's not cheat utility, so it won't give you any more information than what's available to you if you don't hit all the F1-F6 keys and go into every sub-screen.

Anyway, with Civ Assist, you'll have a quick list of which civs (that you've met) have which techs with a quick Alt-Tab keystroke.

2. I read somewhere that you should have more than one settler pump.

This depends on the world size you're playing and how fast you need to get settlers out to stake your territory. On huge maps, sometime I might have 2 or even 3 early on.

3. I know that in the early game I'm not supposed to waste my time building temples, only workers, settlers, and offensive/defensive units (and the occasional granary or barracks, I suppose).

My balance are empire growth and building a defense first (not to be confused with defensive units).

1. Claim as much land as you can, focus on growth in your cities.
2. Have a few military pumps to build military units (mostly offensive, some artillery, few defensive) to at least be able to deter other civs and/or defend your territory. If I don't have certain key resources... *cough cough*... iron, horses... I will focus on a stronger military to have the flexibility of being able to "acquire" them.
3. When I've secured my empire, then I focus on infrastructure.

However, this is only a general path, sometimes I will sneak in a temple here, a harbor there, etc. as needed for growth and/or securing any gaps in my territory.

4. I also read that you should control unhappiness by adjusting the luxury slider

As SJ Frank already replied, growth is paramount early on.

I don't see gold as being very imporant early on. If you want to quantify it - it's 4 gold to a shield, while food is irreplaceable. Most of the time, the loss in production of one tile to a joker is not worth it.

 

[Arvedui]

Of course that's hard to know, since there's no way to switch in-game screens to check when they make the offer.

Actually, I discovered a way to check any advisor screen whilst making a transaction: just click on your foreign advisor's head, at the top right corner (not his speech box, which would just cause him to switch what he's saying).

Roso,

If the fact that you haven't won yet on Emperor is bugging you, I have a piece of advice for a relatively easy way to win: Play on a tiny pangea map, with only one opponent, and make it a OCC. That's how I won on demigod, and I didn't even break a sweat (not because of my prowess). Also, you should, in this case, choose a civ with a good early UU, such as the Persians or Romans. But I know that playing a balanced game, with many civs, is an entirely diferent story.

PS: Sorry everybody to respond so late, but I've been sleeping (I'm not joking LOL)

 

[Aardvark]

While in despot, I usually pop rush a temple when I am religious. Takes care of unhappiness for a while.

 

[thetrooper]

But pop rushing causes unhappiness too...

 

[gunkulator]

Yes, but pop rushing a temple turns that unhappy fellow back to content.