Immortal University 76 - Montezuma

[Ric]

Quick question: why does it read IU-76 Darius on the first screenshot? Were you meant to put Darius on but picked Monty instead? Just curious

Hmm yes... Well I was toying with choosing either Monty or Darius. Must have taken that screenshot with the wrong name.

 

[Ric]

Immortal normal - 1AD

Spoiler :

Settled 1 NW for the double gold, double corn and 4 flood plains
Tech path was agri - mining - AH - wheel - pottery - writing - archery - alpha - fishing - horseback - currency - code of laws

My plan so far has been to attack Cathy with horse archers since she is by far the most opportune target. She is in a different religion and at the time of attack in missionary mode.

Western part of my empire

Eastern part of my empire

Tech screen

The diplo situation

 

[Ric]

@Oz-man

Spoiler :

Who to go for can depend on the diplo situation and you have given no indication of that except for saying shaka founded a religion. My game I went for cathy since it was far more opportune for me to do so.
Is shaka in war prep? If he isn't, are you able to divert his attention to another target?

 

[The Oz-Man]

Ric:

Spoiler :

Shaka's Hindu, and Buddhism seems to be dominant everywhere else, which is why I think targeting him's the best idea. I don't have Buddhism yet, probably because the Oracle put me at CoL first, but going for Cathy seems like it'd paint a bullseye on my head. I just hate early-rushing Shaka with horses when I know he has metals and I don't have IW yet, but I don't think I have a choice. Whip, whip, whip, whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

 

[Ric]

Immortal normal 1AD - 1515 AD conquest

Spoiler :

Continued with taking one more city of Cathy to then take her techs for peace. A little after that I got lucky, Cathy vassaled to Shaka causing him to go to war against Sury, Nappy and Zara.
The war dragged long enough on for me to safely tech to cuirs and mop the world with them to a rather easy conquest victory. While I lost quite a bit of cuirs against Nappy and his rifles, I was easely able to slam through it with sheer numbers. Only was able to get to rifling while fighting nappy so they only came in use against Sury.

 

[Marcvs Avrelivs]

Ragequitted at about 500 B.C

Reason?

Spoiler :

Shaka and his godforsaken impis ruining all my plans of world domination I mean, seriously, everytime I attempt playing from the very beginning, rng turns me into his worst enemy... then he declares with impis! Bah!

Start is beautiful, but neighbour is demanding

 

[GenerallyGreat]

Ragequitted at about 500 B.C

Reason?

Spoiler :

Shaka and his godforsaken impis ruining all my plans of world domination I mean, seriously, everytime I attempt playing from the very beginning, rng turns me into his worst enemy... then he declares with impis! Bah!

Start is beautiful, but neighbour is demanding

Spoiler :

he got me at 1480BC with a worst enemy that wasn't me next door.

 

[Marcvs Avrelivs]

@ GG

Spoiler :

Hehe, he went into WHEOOHRN at about 3000-2500 B.C at my game Then declared at about 1000 B.C... with Impis while I had HAs Had to whip out axes, but gave up soon after

 

[jokulmorder]

"new" here (made account a long time ago, made like 3 posts). haven't played civ in a while but i was an emp player before and figured i'd give this a go at imm just to see what i can do.

Spoiler :

settled 1NW like most; seemed like the best spot being able to work the double corn, gold, and all the FPs. i was expecting shaka to declare early which was disheartening because i found no metal. was looking really scary when the only war resource i had was horses and i see him with impi already so i figured i had to go IW and pray i got lucky. what do you know there's iron in tenoch's cross! accidentally spent like 2 turns doing HBR because that was my plan after seeing the horses at first.

biggest shocker was that shaka did not declare early. so instead of deciding to go for him (both buddhist by now) i decide to go for heathen cathy. at 50 BC i've taken one of cath's cities and moscow, and i'm planning to war again with her soon, possibly end (but she's split so i might have to just vassal her or something). took a slight risk and beelined currency->aesth. luckily justin did not research curr so i traded it to him for alph, poly, and something else. researching feudal because i don't think justin will go for it, enables vassals, makes me immune to shaka more or less, and will have gigantic trade value with the other civs.

tbh i don't think i could have done even half as well given my skill level if shaka had declared.

Here i am at 50 BC:

Spoiler :

 

[yyeah]

awsome spot

Spoiler :

http://ifotos.pl/zobacz/montipng_wnrpxwr.png
i think i will cottage all of this xD will this amount of food and, when i deal with shaka( what a dumb comp 9 cities vs 2 and he dont wana capitulate) i go try to win lib and lib democracy
what do u think can they (cottage ) grow enough ? so i can sw in to universal sufrage.... ?
or maybe i crush some1 xD hmm but i need engi no point i think.

done it xD

Spoiler :

http://ifotos.pl/zobacz/montywonp_wnrrsra.png
my 3th in a row immo win i start winning after 2 months xD civ 4 yeah xD

 

[traius]

Your bump made me try it. Got DoW'd by shaka pre-2000BC. That was quick.

 

[yyeah]

yea shaka xD he put hes 3th city right in to my face so i knew that iam hes target 4 sure so... well horse archer rush not good idea vs imps... jaguar rush either so i went like streight in to construction after writing i went iw start pomp out jaguars , math, constructon and he just wasnt rdy but yea 2000 bc is quick i have to be in diferent religon i supose ...

 

[sampsa]

Necroing this, because it's one of the best maps I've seen. Great start, but not without problems. I remember struggling quite a bit with this map 10 years ago.

Normal save in the OP, immortal BUFFY save (with barb techs) attached.

 

[sampsa]

T0 thoughts

Spoiler :

People in the past seemed to think 1NW is the best spot. Maybe I agreed then, but now would clearly prefer SIP. It's not a fast start at all and the starting techs are weak. Losing a turn moving, killing a forest and delaying the best tile 2T is slowing it down further. Also something that is quite obvious to me now is the best 2nd city spot (after scout move on desert gold). Back then it was blasphemy! Well it still is, but good blasphemy.

What I (and nearly everyone) didn't appreciate enough in the past

Spoiler :

CHOP. Just start chopping all the forest to workers/settlers and settle the good spots asap. And it's clear already T0 that there are good spots by the river.

 

[sampsa]

T50

Spoiler :

agri-mining-BW, in my opinion anything else would be a mistake. Then wheel-fish-pot-AH-(writing). There is so much to chop that I went 2nd worker at size 3 (grew to 5, 2-pop whip), then settler-settler at size 3. Cities settled T38, T43, T50 (2-popped settler).

2nd city is ready to whip worker once it grows and 3rd city is getting ready to 1-pop one with the help of a chop. Capital probably 3-pop whips settler. The barb city is an annoyance, would've liked to settle on one of the sugars. But ok, clam is a nice 5th and can backfill by the sugar if needed. I'm hoping I get attacked, otherwise it's too easy?

 

[sampsa]

@BornInCantaloup

Spoiler :

I think you can make pig-city 2nd (or 3rd, I went there 4th!) work, but not sure at all that it's better. I think there are so many good spots that it's important to settle them all asap, thus I want to chop as much as possible, which means I can't divert many workerT elsewhere. For me it's not that much about sharing or about the timing of AH, just that the spots with floodplains contribute better without workerT. Fishing-pottery hasn't been useful preT50 (delays the boat but it's not important anyway) so I don't see a problem going AH first though.

I also tend to go ultra light on safety on immortal pre-T40 and settling east was safer. Maybe with better play you can settle pigs earlier.

For me one early extra pt >> dry gold. It's also without doubt the safest spot (both from barbs and the Barbarian).

 

[sampsa]

@BornInCantaloup T50

Spoiler :

I don't think it is wise

Yeah, I think doing things like that may get you into trouble even on immortal.

So, I've skipped Fishing, here. I want HBR sooner than later and don't need the food.
Eastern gold city comes 4th because it instantly borrows the corn from the capital and, hence, slows down settler/worker production.
5th city is planned to claim the western horses, probably on the plains hills.

Huuuum... So, Shaka started plotting as soon as I planted Tlatelolco, which is kind of expected and the not wise part. You might prefer to delay that city for safety. This is why I'm on the archery path atm.
At least, I've got all the food in sight, which is, you know, the objective in early expansion. Also got decent prospects for the capital's cottages development.

Triggering the DoW is really bad, actually and I'll probably die in the next 20 turns or so But my issue with your attempt is that your first 2 cities do not claim tiles (other than a gold tile, which... does that really count ?). I think a middle ground can be reached that could both be reasonable and efficient.

While I agree that more is more, I think the immediate vicinity of the capital is so strong that you don't need to grab a lot of land. My cities 2 and 3 claim floodplains, forest and grass river, that's enough. Compact is cheap and can be efficient.

 

[chinemol]

T0 thoughts

Spoiler :

People in the past seemed to think 1NW is the best spot. Maybe I agreed then, but now would clearly prefer SIP. It's not a fast start at all and the starting techs are weak. Losing a turn moving, killing a forest and delaying the best tile 2T is slowing it down further. Also something that is quite obvious to me now is the best 2nd city spot (after scout move on desert gold). Back then it was blasphemy! Well it still is, but good blasphemy.

What I (and nearly everyone) didn't appreciate enough in the past

Spoiler :

CHOP. Just start chopping all the forest to workers/settlers and settle the good spots asap. And it's clear already T0 that there are good spots by the river.

Spoiler :

played a bit. the problem with settle on gold is that it won't get much land and you are surrounded.
in my case, went on the hill by the pigs to stop shaka from encroaching, city 3 to the east to stop cathy from getting all. not the best, but gains enough space to breathe and plan. otherwise it's a rush scenario. anyhow, forgot barb techs of course...

 

[sampsa]

@chinemol

Spoiler :

the problem with settle on gold is that it won't get much land and you are surrounded.

BiC is saying the same, but for me that is not a problem at all! Take land later.

anyhow, forgot barb techs of course

Both my and OP save had them, only if you played via worldbuilder you need to add them.

 

[sampsa]

@BornInCantaloup

Spoiler :

Well, my objective is to reliably win. Maybe you are overestimating immortal AI? You will win every time if you are able to set up a good 4- or 5-city core. Here you can see T0 you have food, river, one extra , life is good. For me there is no reason to take risks.

Your cities 2 and 3 do not help you in the least. In the Middle Earth, it is common rule to get the pigs early if you can get them, because that city will be able to contribute to your expansion, as any 2nd city should, right ?

They help a lot, because they are contributing without any workerT as already explained. Is pigs-city T50 somehow way too late? I don't think so. Looking at your T50 screenshot, I am certainly not behind in development and winning 4pt, before you've even settled your 4th. I don't understand what you are talking about really.

I'm also not saying gaining your Tlateloco-spot is somehow bad. I'm saying you can easily win without it. If I am "Laining it" I'm liking it.