Immortal University XI - Washington

[JBossch]

@mystyfly

Spoiler :

I almost put Boston 1SE to get the corn after killing Churchill. The horses made me decide against it. I really don't think they are that close. In my game he never settled toward me at all. The borders I could see were just his capital (which I now own, look for an update later today).

 

[JBossch]

Round 2: 950BC - 1000AD

Spoiler :

900BC: Mids are BIAFAL. I guess we can scratch that idea.
Also, I meet Toku (all AIs met).

875BC: Philadelphia is founded to get the stone/gold/flood plains.

675BC: Tech breakthrough event helps with the jump toward aesthetics.

425BC: Washington pops a GS - my econ is already on the upswing so I figure an academy is best.
The barbs from Polynesia decided to attack me with a couple archers which weakened their defenses. I whipped up a couple chariots and took it at the cost of 1 chariot.

I even got a chariot up to level 3, unlocking HE.

350BC: aesthetics is in and after teching one turn of alpha I trade for the rest of it, as well as maths, pottery, hunting, poly, med, construction, and IW.


325BC: Another stupid negative diplo event, this time with Churchill.

175BC: Atlanta founded to get both fish.

25BC: Church demands cows, I acquiesce.

25AD: GLib is in, chopped in the capital despite lack of marble.

75AD: Shaka DoWs me. Fortunately, a chariot scout had spotted his initial stack coming through Church's lands so I had a couple turns to get my workers the hell out of dodge and organize some kind of defense. It wasn't too tough to defend myself since I had begun gearing up for war with Church anyway. The HE was completed in New York just after the DoW.

200AD: Church asks to cancel deals with HC - no. Justin asks to cancel deals with Church - yes, since I am about to kill him anyway.

175AD: Another GS is born - he will sleep til the Lib race.

325AD: After having enough of his units killed Shaka tosses me a little gold for peace.

350AD: HC DoWs Church! This is huge since I am just about to declare on him as well.

425AD: HC asks me to DoW Church and I agree. It was a turn or two ahead of schedule but the diplo is worth it. CHurch completes feudalism just afterward so I will be facing protective LBs with cats, swords, axes, and the like. Thus begins a 500 year war, so I will just stick to the highlights for the rest of the session.

450AD: Toku DoWs HC, this is getting better all the time. I revolt to Buddhism to befriend Justin and HC.

500AD: London is mine.


740AD: I get the horse whispering quest and then promptly fail it when I get edu a few turns later. Stupid. A GS is born which will be bulbed.

1000AD: I take peace w/Church for a few old techs and gold.
Here are my newly acquired lands. I will likely move my capital to London as soon as it is feasible.

Church still has one city near me and I will probably try to take it after the peace treaty, that is unless he vassals to HC in the meantime. They are still at war, and Justin and Shaka are fighting.


There are some big questions in the diplo department as HC has switched to Hinduism, making it just me and Justin the lone Buddhists in a Hindu world.

I am fairly sure I want to continue warmongering in the direction of Shaka (seems easier, though both directions lead to similarly huge land masses) which I think means I need a friendly HC. Should I convert to Hindu? I will be screwing relations with Justin, currently the only guy who will trade techs with me because of WFYABTA. Converting HC back is probably doable but will be a huge hassle.

The tech situation doesn't look bad:

I am currently 1 turn from Lib and tryign to decide what to take. No one else has edu yet so I should have a few turns to play with. I am thinking either constitution to boost my specialists (though I really only have a few specialist cities now that I have the British lands) or replaceable parts on the way to rifles. Church was cottage spamming like crazy.

My current military situation is kinda crap. I ended up taking appalling losses on Church's last city, some flukey (a CR3 sword died on a 98%+ fight), some pride (I know these cats are wounded but CHARGE!). I should have at least a core left but they are way outdated units.

So...
1) Should I hit Church after the peace treaty for his last city near me? If so, keep it or raze? I don't really want borders with Toku.
2) What should I take with Lib?
3) Should I convert to Hindu and hope for relations that are good enough to keep HC and Toku off my back, or stick with Buddhism for the relations with Justin? (it is also already spread better).
4) Agree with moving capital to London?
5) What about a civic swap soon to CS? Washington and a couple other cities could run a pile of scientists (this idea makes Constitution more attractive, I think). Couple it with Pacifism or run OR and try to convert HC?

Sorry for all the questions but the game is at a critical juncture I think.
Thanks for any and all help!

 

[PaulusIII]

@ everyone:

Spoiler :

What I really like about the Great Lighthouse is that it requires little effort to get the gains from it. 4 extra commerce (assuming foreign trade) for each coastal city you build is pretty nice.

Still, I hope I might get a shot at the 'mids. By the looks of it, I got more boxed in by Churchill - still grabbed some sites, but he's got the horses. Possibly have to fight my way out - good thing Shaka's on this map so I get someone to divert Churchill's attention.

Next round will follow later today.

 

[mboettcher]

@ JBossch

Spoiler :

That was some excellent play I must say.

I agree with moving your capital to London. Can get a lot of Gold from a Bureaucracy there.

As far as Lib tech goes... How long will it take to research Cons? Can you hold off on Lib (since no one else is lined up to research it at the moment) and research Cons so you can take Demo? This way you can build StatLib unopposed. This should get the tech ball rolling pretty fast and give you a lot of trade fodder.

Military/Relgion wise... Is Tok as weak as usual by the industrial era? There are so many questions to be asked before you target someone else. I don't know but it seems with your territorial base you should be fine no matter what.

Oh where are your GG and what did you do with them?

 

[mboettcher]

@JBossch

Spoiler :

On second thought. I've always hated Qi Shi at this level. Do me a favor and kick his a**. He builds a lot of econ momentum.

 

[JBossch]

@mboettcher

Spoiler :

Thanks! I am worried that waiting for demo could be too long. I currently do not have machinery or PP (should be able to trade for machinery right away, had to postpone it so I could bulb Lib) and I am looking at 11 turns just for PP. I doubt it will be very long before the AIs get edu. I did just get copper so SoL is a possibility, its just so expensive.

As for war, Toku is backward as usual but his land (from what I can see) is not fantastic and, like you said, taking down Qin may be better long term.

I got 2 GGs, the first joined a medic1 chariot to make a super healer and the second settled in my HE city (New York).

PS: you may want to use spoilers on this thread.

 

[Dirk1302]

Until 1960 BC

Spoiler :

GLH went 1960 BC in my game,np since i wasn't allowed to build it anyway . Wouldn't have gone for it anyway as blocking Churchill seems like a priority here.

 

[patagonia]

Part Two: 900BC - 1270AD

Spoiler :

I decided to hold off warring on Churchill until after Liberalism since I had enough room to get the Globe up and running as it was, and I didn't much fancy bordering Shaka that early in the game. Instead, I focused on exploration and the economy, researching aesthetics to back-fill and chopping/whipping the GLib in the capital. It didn't seem safe to adopt a religion so I relied on caste system and NE to get some scientists whilst setting up a globe city at the wheat/cow/clam site for some whip/draft abuse when the time came.

The main annoyance was delaying too long to settle the little island off the western coast, allowing Justinian to sneak across the sea and plant a city there.

Rather irritatingly, I got 2 artists at very low odds and had to research chemistry the slow way, which delayed liberalism a fair bit, but I eventually got there:



Steel was the free tech and I promptly geared up for a cannon/musket war against Winnie while researching towards rifling. I burned one artist on a golden age to ensure I got liberalism ahead of Qin and have the other sleeping in London, either for a post-war golden age or to culture bomb Nottingham, I can't decide which.

Does this stack look sufficient to charge into England, or should I wait a few more turns?



I'm a little bit worried about Shaka getting dragged into the war (he's just capitulated Justinian - I should have kept a closer eye on that and bribed them to make peace), but I think the AP might come to my rescue there. Unfortunately Qin's "afraid of his military might" so I can't rely on being able to bribe my way out of trouble.

Here's a look at the current tech situation - cannons are my main advantage since nobody else has chemistry yet:

 

[patagonia]

@ JBossch

Spoiler :

Any chance of looking at your save?

Seems like you're in a very strong position grabbing Churchill's core that early. Was it a sword/cat war? I've not tried them at this level.

 

[silverbullet]

mboettcher: Comments on others' play should be in spoilers.

 

[JBossch]

@Patagonia:

Spoiler :

Here is a save. Pretty sure this is right before Lib and right after taking out Churchill. Yes, I used cats and swords, along with a hodge-podge of axes and chariots. He got feudalism right as I was invading so I definitely faced LBs and the hilltop cities were indeed problematic. I had a couple things in my favor, 1) HC declared on Church a few turns prior so his forces were already occupied and 2) I blocked him off pretty early so I was able to hit his capital within 2 turns of the DoW.
The usual problem with a sword/cat war at this level is falling behind in the Liberalism race. I stayed in it with the GLib which helped get about 4 GSs for bulbing (bad luck for you with the GAs ).
I played a few turns after this save. I had the typical problem for a hybrid economy where you need constitution and PP at the same time so I gambled a little (the AIs were REAL close to Lib) and took constitution with Lib while bulbing toward PP.
I went into CS, Rep and Pacifism for some pretty good teching. I ended up popping a GE which convinced me (along with capturing copper from Church) to build the SoL in Washington right before moving the palace to London.
One major problem that has come up: The AP is Hindu and they keep voting to give cities back to Churchill (now a vassal of HC as expected). I have to refuse every one and unhappiness is massive in my Hindu cities. This is mainly just an issue in the south but I had to close borders with Qin because he was infiltrating Hindu missionaries.
I will probably stay Buddhist and tech to rifles for a war against Shaka. I am still pleased with HC at the moment so hopefully I can keep him off my back. I don't know if I will have time to finish this game but it looks like a good candidate for a domination victory.
This is a lot more info than you asked for.

 

[mboettcher]

@patagonia

Spoiler :

That looks like an effective stack to me. You should do really well in this war considering churchill doesn't even have redcoats yet and probably only has a few musketmen. Str 9 muskets won't take out too many str 12 cannons even if they are fortified. Looks like you've done really well and are well on your way to winning

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

I had a go at this, I didn't really take it too seriously...

Spoiler :

as I declared war On Churchhill, as soon as I met his Worker by the northern boarder...

Any way, against all odds really, I've made it to 1850 or so...but if I'd played seriously, i'd have been a contender.

No spoilers. Been an interesting run. I look forward to further postings...

As I said, I didnt' really play well. I tried for an early worker grab off Churchhill and got involved in a war for 1/4 of game... Meh..

Seriously, I'll be watching the early settling, and re-try it seriously myself.

Pity the game won't unfold as it did now....

Looking forward to other updates..

Oh, I"ve settled some cities as you have, but didn't go for an early enough land grab, or churchhill settled towards me...not sure which..

Spoiler :

I got as far as blocking city by gold/river/stone. and grabbed the Barbarian city that pops up by wheat/cows

On My map question

Spoiler :

what are Englands first 2 cities???

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

I've a further question/suggestion/querry

Spoiler :

Do you really think its a good idea to take out Churchhill, as he's in the 'centre' of a pangea type continent.

In my game, I had Shaka V's Justinian (vassalised), Churchill V's tokie, Tokie V's who ever's handy..So I've been 'sheilded by Churchill, who was a Jew, as opposed to Hindu (tokie), Buddist (Justinian), confus (Shaka) with Qin (jew) and Hyuna (dind't care but jew).

Jewdaism was Appoc palace religion, I had it spread to all cities, and built all religious buildings..but found the 'bully bulldog', a great shield, as potential enimies were all different religions to him...

Further spoiler (late game)

Spoiler :

Anyway, I'm really toast, they've all traded Machineguns about, and I"m doggigly teching to Medicine for Sids (Great mearchant in hand), but Qins a runway tech leader, Proberly go for Cultural as 2 & 3 are at 25K with No 1 40 odd

I was hoping to launch a tank war against England/Qin...but don't think it'll last long enough.

Considering I played only 1/2 heartedly, once I declared on churchill, and he attacked by newly teched bows with Crossbows...I'm amazed I lasted.

But having a shield has saved me. though why Tokie, who's on a 35% domination run hasn't attacked me (church is vassal to him) I don't know.

Onwards I go

 

[patagonia]

Thanks for the feedback. Here's how things turned out...

Part Three: 1270AD - 1510AD

Spoiler :

Carrying on from the previous save, I decided to declare on Churchill the following turn, with the aim of eliminating him in a single war to avoid any future AP interference. Before making the declaration, I checked on Shaka who was WFYABTA and likely targeting Qin, which meant I should be able to kill Churchill without any interference.

I sent a spare worker south to Coventry to scout out the defences and spied Churchill's medieval SoD there. I promptly declared, waited a turn for him to move it into my territory outside New York and destroyed it without losing a unit thanks to some barrage-2 cannons. Now that barrage has been fixed, they're truly devastating at this stage of the game.

This earned me a GG who I used to make a medic 3 chariot to accelerate the conquest, heading through Coventry to London and then Nottingham. I culture bombed there with my other artist to gain control of the chokepoint from Shaka and then swept my stack back east to capture Churchill's remaining cities.



Diplomatically, things are delicately poised. I had to bribe Shaka with education and PP to make peace with Qin after he'd taken a couple of Chinese cities and I think I'm going to have to try to get the rest of the world into a Zulu dogpile to stop him picking off the others one by one. I've just bought myself 10 turns of safety by begging for 50 from Shaka who's currently pleased with me, but I'm not too sure what to do beyond that.

The way I see it, I need more land to compete with Shaka/Huayna. If I target Huayna, Shaka will probably gobble up Qin and come for me next; if I target Shaka (the clear power leader, although I can't see his demographics), Huayna's likely to zoom ahead in tech. This is particularly problematic as Shaka has the SoZ and hundreds of units. I could do him a lot of damage by declaring and destroying his stacks outside Nottingham in my own culture, but actually taking any cities is going to be very costly.

I'm still in Nationalism so I could draft up a whole load of rifles, but I don't know if it's best to keep warring (and if so, heading east or west), or to consolidate and beeline arty before having another crack.

 

[patagonia]

@ IPEX

Spoiler :

I'm pretty sure the English city order is:

London > York > Nottingham > Coventry

 

[Quotey]

IPEX:

Spoiler :

London -> York -> Nottingham -> Hastings. You can find all of them in C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Assets\XML\Civilizations in the file Civ4CivilizationInfos.xml

People who have the world map:

Spoiler :

What a pleasing shape. Like a bow tie.

 

[PaulusIII]

Part 2: 1000 BC - 125 BC

Spoiler :

800 BC: Mids are in. Revolt to Rep.

675 BC: Aesthetics is in, I tradewhore around a bit for Poly & IW (Qin), Alphabet (Churchill, had to throw in AH as well) and Math (Justinian). Start on Literature, 8 turns (and increasing since I've not yet got my libraries up everywhere). On a side note, Qin already has Theology for which I presume he bulbed a prophet. I can thus safely assume the AP is going to be Jewish.

600 BC: I check the tech screen and see I'm not quite as far behind as I thought. I still have Alphabet on 4 AI's and Aesthetics on 3. Might be able to get construction, but that's often a tech AI's won't easily trade away. Not that I blame them - it's a military tech after all.

475 BC: Literature is in. Scientists are thrown out of the library and set to work in the mines. Time for the Great Library! Check everybody for marble - nobody has any. Dang.

325 BC: Yipe, Qin has Literature. Gotta hurry with the GL.

250 BC: No Justinian, I'm not giving you Literature for Monotheism and a bit of cash. I... have my reasons, so to say. It would not be the first time someone GE-rushed a wonder on me.

Also: Currency is in and gives 10 GPT extra courtesy of trade routes. CoL is next for caste.

175 BC: Toku has enough on his hands. Whatever, it isn't me he's aiming for because he needs open borders with Churchill to get to me. Which... surprise surprise, he doesn't.

He's either aiming for HC or Churchill. I sure hope it's Churchill, if it's Churchill he's aiming for I might well take an opportunistic stab at him. London sure looks nice.

First GS is in and sent to Washington for an academy. Since I have the GL ready in a copule of turns, that's gonna give a nice boost to science.

125 BC: Drumroll... the GL is in. BPT is now over 100. Niiiice.
I quit... for now.

Map: Church has settled a few annoying cities towards me. If Toku declares I might try to grab them.



Tech: As you can see I'm reluctant to trade away a monopoly tech until I can sell it away for more useful techs or big wads of $$$. And since 3 of the 4 techs available on the market are as of now WFYABTA-inducing garbage I'm not trading for them either.



One concern is the speed with which Qin is pulling ahead. Apart from these 6 he also has Theology on me. Already tried to bribe Shaka but I don't have enough tech/cash for that yet. Shaka will attack anybody save Church (nothing to gain) and Toku (doesn't know yet)

 

[patagonia]

@ Paulus

Spoiler :

Looks like you have a strong economy thanks to the 'mids/GLib. When are you thinking of making a land-grab?

Qin's strong for now, but you'll blow past him if/when you start bulbing. At the same stage in my game, I was a long way behind both China and England and I'm not any more (Churchill's dead and I'm in a stronger position than Qin right now).

 

[PaulusIII]

@ Paulus

Spoiler :

Looks like you have a strong economy thanks to the 'mids/GLib. When are you thinking of making a land-grab?

Qin's strong for now, but you'll blow past him if/when you start bulbing. At the same stage in my game, I was a long way behind both China and England and I'm not any more (Churchill's dead and I'm in a stronger position than Qin right now).

Spoiler :

As things stand a landgrab might not come before gunpowder troops/drafting. Churchill is a buffer - the warmongers hate him so they do not have OB with him, thus ensuring that I can pretty much tech to liberalism in peace.

As for a possible early elimination of Churchill due to circumstances (a Toku/HC/Shaka dogpile is not unthinkable since both Toku and HC hate him and Shaka is easy to bribe) I'm not sure if that would be in my favor. If I properly build up I might be able to snatch London and a few other city sites, but then there's the problem of getting a border with Toku and Shaka.