Immortal University XVII - Peter

[Duckweed]

Originally Posted by TheMeInTeam
I think this is true for most people, but I am almost certain I am the opposite. I know and abuse the hell out of the AI diplo system (wins like the one in this thread one are extremely common for me). Similarly getting 1-3 AIs to friendly for a game-long tradewhore session isn't something hard.

But, it seems I still make poor tile choices on a turn by turn basis. I never seem to match the tech rate of the top tier players, even if I farm great scientists to speed myself along.

It's funny, up through immortal I can almost always play out a very bland but effective formula now: Block some city spots, use or move the capitol for bureaucracy commerce, and run GPP. The rest of the cities wind up making units or if that isn't necessary other hammer options. Sometimes the land is nice for another cottage city or two. Really formulaic, but it works. Maybe my good diplo is the only reason it does.

Anyway I'm virtually certain my weakness is micro. I've never, ever computed out an optimal path after seeing my surroundings. I think if I took the time to do this repeatedly I'd learn and eventually memorize what tends to be optimal, but going through those motions just doesn't seem fun to me . As such, I'll probably be playing immortal for quite some time, until I REALLY get the urge to beat deity. Then I'll probably start trying to micro a bit more.

Pleasing AIs is just one aspect of the diplomacy. There are other things to be taken care of:
Which AIs you are going to make friend with? Especially when multiple religions are running on.
Which tech path you will go next (very important)? knowing your trading partner's tech also helps.
When to trade away a tech?
And more...
I still make mistakes in diplomacy and this would dramatically affect your situation.
I do micromanage in the early game and this is fairly easy for small empire and I don't think it affects your situation that much.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Pleasing AIs is just one aspect of the diplomacy. There are other things to be taken care of:
Which AIs you are going to make friend with? Especially when multiple religions are running on.
Which tech path you will go next (very important)? knowing your trading partner's tech also helps.
When to trade away a tech?
And more...
I still make mistakes in diplomacy and this would dramatically affect your situation.
I do micromanage in the early game and this is fairly easy for small empire and I don't think it affects your situation that much.

Well, let me put it this way:

My diplo management of AIs is very tight. I know almost everyone who does/does not declare at pleased, have many favorite civics memorized, and generally align myself well within games to suit my goals. I almost never get surprise declared on (snubbing the AI I did in this game was mostly because I'd already won, and was planning to invade HIM shortly. In many games I something nasty using war bribes to set it up. Note that nobody touched me prior to that as I trade whored with everyone but my first target). However, in comparing my games to others who play/win deity, I always have less BPT, get my great people slower, and expand less optimally. My timetables are too slow. Good diplo will only carry you if you have at least SOMETHING to trade around. On immortal, I do now. But not on deity.

 

[Duckweed]

@TheMeInTeam

Good diplo will only carry you if you have at least SOMETHING to trade around.

Very true. It is not so difficult to have something to trade around even in Deity. Choose your tech path carefully. Have your right first trade tech available early even at the cost of slower expanding. In the dual deity change game of Gilgi. Col line is optimal than Lit line given the Sumerian UB and no marble in sight.
What is really difficult and important is to wisely choose your tech path and sell techs in the right time by looking around your trading partners, which will guarantee you a tech lead all the time.

 

[JBossch]

Ok, Im in on this one. I may be a little rusty though so watch out for total disasters. Should be able to post something later tonight.

 

[mirthadir]

1860 Diplo win

Spoiler :

After denying carthage my southern flank I tank my economy, again, while expanding like mad. I have a few internal spots I need to start growing ...

but swapping maps with Pacal reveals some nice tasty islands with Sushi and Mining resources. Pacal has settle two spots on the north end of the east island. I take my settlers who were going to found interior cities and send them off on galleons to stand around for a century or two before founding at the last possible moment (yes my economy sucked that hard). All told I end up with 4 overseas cities so trade routes provide a hefty boost.

I'm beelining medicine in hopes of snagging Sushi, at bio I FINALLY have some tech I can trade for the first time since Astro (which was a power beeline with bulbs). A raze run to Mutal seems just about certain; but the other AIs declare on Pacal and he starts losing overseas territory. Pacal loses the UN and a vote is called. I get Jao to vote for me because of civics, sucking up, and a nice random event; Pacal votes because we were coreligionists and favorite civic.

Mistakes made:
1. Killing Suri. This was huge. Yes I had the ability to utterly hose him, but the return is terrible when you have to block settle AND rush. Further by virtue of killing Suri and nerfing my economy I could not trade with Pacal for early techs should I have bulbed anything good and still had to build defense but I also slipped into a hole where I'd have no monopoly techs when I finally met the AI. Killing off the only AI you can interact early with is huge, killing off one of two, even it's toko is normally not good long run.
2. Not settling the gems sooner. That city is huge for early game gold, but I viewed protecting the marble/Ag as more important; that was likely wrong.
3. Being slow to get a GP farm going. I was approaching medicine and would still not have a GM. This makes for a costly detour into Pac/caste to get one.