Immortal University XXIV: Julius Caesar

[ungy]

gave it a go:

I settle 1N--my thoughts are that'll boost production in the capital. Also it looked like tundra 3N so may not settle a city to the N.

Spoiler :

too much land--and good land. I claim the corn/stone/ivory with my first city then the gems and a couple of floodplain spots. Sal founds hindu and spreads to Alex and I and the AI are fighting each other. I play nice --build the Glib, get tao and I start to lose interest as the only danger here was an early DOW. Don't think I'll finish it.

 

[Jet]

you could use the same argument with a terrible choice for this format such as "no tech brokering".

It should be obvious that I didn't mean it in that sense. Huts are on by default.

 

[Single Malt]

Of course, anybody can host games if they don't like the settings I chose, and I think the new NC host leaves huts on (MS does not)...so whatever works!

The only reason I leave huts and events on is that its the NC, I for one, at that level, prefer them on as they can lead to interesting situations (and I am sure other NC players like em too as they are standard settings). However, on higher difficulties, I prefer them off, due to me getting 3 Vidic Aryans in my 1st emperor attempt, and having only horse to defend against spearmen, followed by swords, followed by HA's (I forgot to turn off events and huts). I should let this thread get back on topic though, and leave you Immortal players to get stuck in, while I work at staying alive in the Trait Comparison game at emperor

 

[TheMeInTeam]

It should be obvious that I didn't mean it in that sense. Huts are on by default.

I never did like this argument. It operates on the assumption that the default is the best for balance/etc, which is a big assumption. But, even if it IS the best settings lineup for standard play, leaving something on because it's on by default is still a weak reason for situations other than single player w/o comparison!

Forum games aren't exactly default situations to begin with...I think many of us who are regulars forget that. Fireaxis gave us custom game options to set games as we see fit and IMO this is the kind of format where huts off makes sense other than MP.

 

[mirthadir]

My vote is for huts on:

1. One of the major offsets of a high LHC game is that you get to claim all the huts on your island(s). Losing this perk is at least a 20% increase in difficulty. To a lesser extent this applies to early bottleneck and block situations.
2. Optimal exploration patterns are completely different. Huts off removes the strategic tradeoffs between zig zag out (optimal for meeting other civs), spiral out (optimal for finding expansion slots, and zig zag in (away from the AIs in optimal effort to find huts). With huts on, it is far more valueable to go search the tundra with a zig zag in for goodies, particularly if you have the scout. With it off you pretty much should always send your first unit out as far as possible to find AI civs before borders start popping and closing them off.

The setting I really wish Firaxis had included was something like "predetermined huts" where every hut in the game has 3 locked values (one for scout, one for explorer, and one for everything else) that determines if you get cash, xp, a free unit, barbs, maps, etc. (no free techs). Then there would only be the most marginal amounts of luck with huts, but you'd still have to make strategic sacrifices to after them or not.

 

[Verision]

I think huts off makes the most sense if you are going to try to compare games.

When I first moved up to Monarch, I played the same start over and over until I finally won before I moved on (I.E. I reloaded the initial autosave whenever I lost until I finally won on that map). One time I recieved two free technologies from huts with my warrior, and another time the first hut I popped had barbs that immediately killed my warrior (preventing me from further exploaration/hut popping).

Two free technologies give you a really big head start, especially if you are on a difficulty you aren't used to.

 

[mirthadir]

Two free techs is a huge leg up, yes, but losing your initial warrior (scout) to the first wolf is a bigger loss.

If the goal is strictly comparison, then you need to have barbs off; the massive difference between on guy getting unlucky and losing his first warrior vs the first barb it sees, let alone say an archer + settler getting two archers to hit the same turn is far more crippling. The extra expansion a lucky guy can get without heavy warrior fog busting dwarfs the value of a free tech most often.

 

[GenerallyGreat]

If there are any slightly lower level players out there reading this thread I highly recommend giving this one a go it's probably the second best start I've seen! Having said that I've made a massive mess of it due to some nasty barb RNG and general lazy and stupid play.

Spoiler :

I'm at about 1500AD and so far have gotten beaten to liberalism by Monty who was run away tech leader, however the big guy in the game is Saladin who has vassaled Monty has declared on me with a huge power advantage. I'm a bit too embarrassed for screenshots right now but I'll update as soon as I get this restarted and hopefully spank Sally. I'm assuming that most of you guys have this won before 1400AD.

 

[Fluxx]

^^ won before 1400 AD?

Well unless you get a ridiculous win like TMIT, define Win

On the game itself, 1500 AD here too. I played horrible, absolutely horrendous. I made mistake after mistake after mistake plus the fact that the RNG was against me the entire game.

I am leader in land and highest in approval rate after ALOT of work. However I am horribly behind in tech. 1500 AD just getting rifling? Yes THAT bad .

I will win this game though, but it will have to happen in industrial or modern ages.
If people want to see screenshots how to NOT play at this level, but still happily fight a 1000 year war with Praetorians over Pericles, say so though and I will make a rapport

 

[GenerallyGreat]

^^ won before 1400 AD?

Well unless you get a ridiculous win like TMIT, define Win

On the game itself, 1500 AD here too. I played horrible, absolutely horrendous. I made mistake after mistake after mistake plus the fact that the RNG was against me the entire game.

I am leader in land and highest in approval rate after ALOT of work. However I am horribly behind in tech. 1500 AD just getting rifling? Yes THAT bad .

I will win this game though, but it will have to happen in industrial or modern ages.
If people want to see screenshots how to NOT play at this level, but still happily fight a 1000 year war with Praetorians over Pericles, say so though and I will make a rapport

That's about when I got rifling! Just in time too, I've just played up to the modern age and just have one loose end to tidy up. I'll post a couple of screenshots when I remember how to. Oh and I fought with Saladin on and off for 3000 years.

 

[Soirana]

If people want to see screenshots how to NOT play at this level, but still happily fight a 1000 year war with Praetorians over Pericles, say so though and I will make a rapport

yes, i would like

appart from making fun i always thought i learned most from games i lost. not the ones i got steel at 700Ad...

 

[GenerallyGreat]

Immortal/epic domination win 1914 AD.

Spoiler :

All but 2 of my screenshots seem to have disappeared and one of the remaining ones doesn't show what it's meant to.

A very unusual game for me as both Alex and Sal were Jewish and were very powerful but also very backward. I needed to tech trade with the Hindu clan of Toku, Jao and Monty so I resisted converting to the local religion waiting for Hindu to spread. Hindu never came my way so for the first time I can remember I played out the game without a religion. Another odd thing was losing liberalism to Monty by 4 turns. As it turned out Monty with a tech lead became a wonder whore and got vassaled by Sal and soon after I ended up with 70 units outside of Rome as I desperately rushed to rifles. Rifles/cannons then Infantry eventually wiped out Sal and as I traditionally do I kept Monty as a pet and even let him have one of his cities back.
Oh the other odd thing was that I didn't bother to check out the bottom of Alex's land until about 1450 AD and thats when I met Churchill. I took him out eventually to win the game, I probably could've capped Jao instead but he only had 4 mainland cities and I wanted a good tank war to finish off!

 

[Mikehendi]

Hello, let me first introduce myself:
I am MikeHendi, playing Civ4 BTS for about 6 months now noble/prince. Start many games. Finish few.

Mostly lurker, though I did post one game before here: My only monarch win, the Lonely Hearts Club as Shaka winning a cultural victory. That game was in isolation however, and I mostly did my thing without interacting a lot with the rest of the world, Tokugawa style.

So, of course, when I picked up this game, I just wanted to see how long I'd last. Tried a Deity game or 2 before, just for laughs, and both times I was destroyed in the BC's. I never even attempted Emperor before!

But actually, I'm doing quite well this game (or so I feel). So I'm posting my 1 AD update soon, and hopefully some of you ol' experienced folks can comment me on my game, point out obvious mistakes and such.

I actually feel like I have a chance to win this thing! (Well, at least before I thought of the increasingly more insane AI era bonusses... :S )

 

[Jet]

It operates on the assumption that the default is the best for balance/etc

No it doesn't. Not better (although I think huts on is); more common.

 

[Mikehendi]

Immortal (+/- 3 levels above my normal princy thingy), Normal speed.

1 AD

Spoiler :

I settled in place, trusting the RNG as I mostly do.

Started teching Hunting-AH While building warrior first, then worker (timed to arrive at completion of AH research) At first I thought the techs weren't THAT expensive, until I realized I wasn't playing Epic!

Then I started building some more warriors (barbs are much more a PITA than on prince I believe, so just to be sure), researched BW while improving Cow, then Pig, and the as a bonus the Horses. Then At size 4 I start a worker, whip him the next turn, + a chop completes, which overflows into an imperialistic settler, taking just 2 turns to build him!

Around this point my research was already at 80%, just because of unit upkeep! OMG! I'm sorry, I keep amazing myself about how hard these crazy penalties kick in.

So I settle Antium, 5W of capital. I first wanted to put it 4W, to get Rice in the first ring, but then I realized on turn 50 the capital would pop to the 3rd ring, so I could work the Rice anyway. SO I settled next to the gold. See screenshot below.

After BW I went Wheel-Pottery (I heard something about cottages being important from a guy named DaveMcCottage or something... (on my level I usually build few cottages.)

Then I research Agriculture for the Rice, (oops I forgot!) and finally get on with Writing. I Skipped mysticism for monuments, I want to pop my borders using whipped libraries.

Writing comletes at 1160BC, turn 71. In the mean time I settled Cumae on the FP+gold+horses spot to the south, and to start blocking of some land.

Here's my empire at 1160BC:

Tech options after writing:

The land:

Cities:

Well, First I want to congratulate myself on NOT attempting SH. I ALWAYS build it when I'm not CRE. Second I wanted to mention that I haven't lost a single battle yet! Of course, in 1120BC one of my warriors gets killed by a barb. Good. It saves me 2 (2!!!) gold per turn!!! OMG (have i said OMG before?)

But now I face a tough decision: How to continue. Aesthetics seems to be good trade bait, but Spearmen are becoming a problem for my chariot defenses. Copper is nowhere in sight, and warriors, while being able to defend the cities, cannot

prevent pillaging. So I go Archery first. I then postponed aesthetics again. Instead of trading for IW, I decide to research it myself. I am a Ceasar, after all (and about to settle my 4th city in the middle of the Jungle)

Yeehaa, Iron in Capital! Capital changes to non stop preatorian training (3XP with barracks.)

After Aesthetics, I decide to tech Drama because:

1. more trade bait
2. Literature is still locked (no Polyethism yet)
3. I settled my fourth city, Neapolis, further south, in the middle of the jungle, but Alex already has 2 cities very close to that juicy 3 gem + 4 Dye spot. I could use a theater for some cultural pressure to keep my tiles.

I find that Jaoaoaoasomething already has aesthetics and alphabet, so I immediately start trading it around, getting stuff like alphabet (after 2 turns research), masonry, sailing, mysticism, and very important: polytheism, which unlocks literature

BTW I opened borders with the Hinduists (Saladin and Monty). Alex was Judaist, went WHEOOHRN, then converted to Hinduism also. I'm not his worst enemy, but I've sent most of my troops down to Neapolis anyhow.

After drama I went literature for the Glib, but Joao has literature already (when I started researching lit). Should I still try? It takes 18 turns to build, which also could be some more settlers. Well, at least I unlocked the N + H epic (got several level 4 units from barb duty

I set research to Music, hopefully I get the free GA to culture-bomb Neapolis, It will garantuee me my BFC, and in the long run I might flip some alex-cities. Of course, I'll set the culture slider to 100% for a turn

So Here's the empire at 1AD:

The land:

Cities:

Rome is set up to build the Glib in 18 turns, But I might not do it after all, but get out some more settlers

Antium has just produced my first Great Scientist, who built the academy in rome. I will unassign the scientists after my worker force returns from chopping jungle in Neapolis (they are on their way)

Cumae will grow to size 7, then produce a Gscientist

Cumae will whip the theater in 4 turns

Diplo:

Techs:

Good:
- I'm still alive!
- I'm not too far behind in tech
- I have room blocked off for some more cities
- I'm friends with Sal and Monty.

Bad:
- Alex is wheoohrn, probably not for me, but I might be wrong. Well, he's gotta go someday anyhow, as he is one filthy backstabber.
- I have only 4 cities, while 8-10 seems to be standard.
- If I go Glib, I will not settle more cities the next 25 turns... I might need too skip it. Especially because I won't be building it in my GPfarm (then I'll miss it for sure).

 

[GenerallyGreat]

Immortal (+/- 3 levels above my normal princy thingy), Normal speed.

1 AD

Spoiler :

I settled in place, trusting the RNG as I mostly do.

Started teching Hunting-AH While building warrior first, then worker (timed to arrive at completion of AH research) At first I thought the techs weren't THAT expensive, until I realized I wasn't playing Epic!

Then I started building some more warriors (barbs are much more a PITA than on prince I believe, so just to be sure), researched BW while improving Cow, then Pig, and the as a bonus the Horses. Then At size 4 I start a worker, whip him the next turn, + a chop completes, which overflows into an imperialistic settler, taking just 2 turns to build him!

Around this point my research was already at 80%, just because of unit upkeep! OMG! I'm sorry, I keep amazing myself about how hard these crazy penalties kick in.

So I settle Antium, 5W of capital. I first wanted to put it 4W, to get Rice in the first ring, but then I realized on turn 50 the capital would pop to the 3rd ring, so I could work the Rice anyway. SO I settled next to the gold. See screenshot below.

After BW I went Wheel-Pottery (I heard something about cottages being important from a guy named DaveMcCottage or something... (on my level I usually build few cottages.)

Then I research Agriculture for the Rice, (oops I forgot!) and finally get on with Writing. I Skipped mysticism for monuments, I want to pop my borders using whipped libraries.

Writing comletes at 1160BC, turn 71. In the mean time I settled Cumae on the FP+gold+horses spot to the south, and to start blocking of some land.

Here's my empire at 1160BC:

Tech options after writing:

The land:

Cities:

Well, First I want to congratulate myself on NOT attempting SH. I ALWAYS build it when I'm not CRE. Second I wanted to mention that I haven't lost a single battle yet! Of course, in 1120BC one of my warriors gets killed by a barb. Good. It saves me 2 (2!!!) gold per turn!!! OMG (have i said OMG before?)

But now I face a tough decision: How to continue. Aesthetics seems to be good trade bait, but Spearmen are becoming a problem for my chariot defenses. Copper is nowhere in sight, and warriors, while being able to defend the cities, cannot

prevent pillaging. So I go Archery first. I then postponed aesthetics again. Instead of trading for IW, I decide to research it myself. I am a Ceasar, after all (and about to settle my 4th city in the middle of the Jungle)

Yeehaa, Iron in Capital! Capital changes to non stop preatorian training (3XP with barracks.)

After Aesthetics, I decide to tech Drama because:

1. more trade bait
2. Literature is still locked (no Polyethism yet)
3. I settled my fourth city, Neapolis, further south, in the middle of the jungle, but Alex already has 2 cities very close to that juicy 3 gem + 4 Dye spot. I could use a theater for some cultural pressure to keep my tiles.

I find that Jaoaoaoasomething already has aesthetics and alphabet, so I immediately start trading it around, getting stuff like alphabet (after 2 turns research), masonry, sailing, mysticism, and very important: polytheism, which unlocks literature

BTW I opened borders with the Hinduists (Saladin and Monty). Alex was Judaist, went WHEOOHRN, then converted to Hinduism also. I'm not his worst enemy, but I've sent most of my troops down to Neapolis anyhow.

After drama I went literature for the Glib, but Joao has literature already (when I started researching lit). Should I still try? It takes 18 turns to build, which also could be some more settlers. Well, at least I unlocked the N + H epic (got several level 4 units from barb duty

I set research to Music, hopefully I get the free GA to culture-bomb Neapolis, It will garantuee me my BFC, and in the long run I might flip some alex-cities. Of course, I'll set the culture slider to 100% for a turn

So Here's the empire at 1AD:

The land:

Cities:

Rome is set up to build the Glib in 18 turns, But I might not do it after all, but get out some more settlers

Antium has just produced my first Great Scientist, who built the academy in rome. I will unassign the scientists after my worker force returns from chopping jungle in Neapolis (they are on their way)

Cumae will grow to size 7, then produce a Gscientist

Cumae will whip the theater in 4 turns

Diplo:

Techs:

Good:
- I'm still alive!
- I'm not too far behind in tech
- I have room blocked off for some more cities
- I'm friends with Sal and Monty.

Bad:
- Alex is wheoohrn, probably not for me, but I might be wrong. Well, he's gotta go someday anyhow, as he is one filthy backstabber.
- I have only 4 cities, while 8-10 seems to be standard.
- If I go Glib, I will not settle more cities the next 25 turns... I might need too skip it. Especially because I won't be building it in my GPfarm (then I'll miss it for sure).

TMIT's city placement looked better than mine so ASAP put cities in at clam/marble, deer/iron and deer/wheat/cow for a GP farm that lets you use more useful cities for other things. Cottage up whatever you can to pay the bills and you can probably fit 2 cities south east where I assume you have fogbusters. (Alex took that spot off the barbs in my game and I didn't get it back until about 1800 AD! The big advantage in this game is available peaceful land make sure you use it.

 

[Lansky]

Wow. This map is amazingly easy, so here is a very brief report.

Spoiler :

Imperialistic/Organized and a ton of really nice city spots and stone. Claim gold/FP cities. Claim Gems/Dye city. Claim Corn/Fish/Cow city. Chop out 'mids. Fit in blocking cities. Back fill large area to the east. Coast to victory however I like. Took Rifling with Lib in 1120 AD after wasting time and teching up to open steel then deciding I'd rather mass draft rifles. No one had education yet as Saladin/Joao/Monty were at war forever while Alex/Churchill were globally hated due to being Jewish. The semi-isolated isolationist was of course a non factor.

Ended up winning in the 1500's via domination though sadly it was all done with cannons/rifles and only a medic preat just because I wanted to use one for something other than barb control.

 

[PaulisKhan]

Finally got a chance to play this one. Found it slightly harder than the Saladin IU but not by much.

overview:

Spoiler :

took Saladin with praets while fighting off Alex who got bribed in against me. Consolidated land and put down lots of cottages. Got real friendly with Monte while everyone else hated me.

Took Alex with rifles and cannons, capitulated Churchill (who I didn't discover for a loooong time due to Alex being a douche)
Built some transports and infantry and capitulated Toku after capturing his capital and killing his stack.
Late dom win.

Monte spent most of his time fighting a smaller but more advanced Joao, eventually managed to capitulate him and then spent most of the rest of game failing to make any impact on Churchills highly promoted redcoats (thanks to Alex feeding him plenty of GG's).