Imperial Trash A+

[cabert]

Havent played BtS that much, what has become so powerful about rivers in Warlords and BtS?

1) health is now a major problem in the late game, fresh water is a good way to help
2) levees can't be built without rivers. With levees and universal suffrage, riverside cottages are making your commerce cities good enough to build space parts.

 

[remconius]

I see, well spotted. I am not used to planning for levees yet.

I guess I'll either go for domination, or build workshops in the endgame to build parts.

 

[Giaur]

I am playing home too. I maintain my opinion that Remco's save is above mine, but I have stronger capital (long term benefits), which could be with profit for the team.

@cabert:
I improved with what was possible. Farms are perhaps worse than cottages, but 1-2 farms near every city is nothing bad - faster growth.
Imagine a city which has only one food coming every turn. Farm increase growth by 100 percent in this case. Fan of whiping like you should not complain about to many farms

 

[cabert]

I am playing home too. I maintain my opinion that Remco's save is above mine, but I have stronger capital (long term benefits), which could be with profit for the team.

@cabert:
I improved with what was possible. Farms are perhaps worse than cottages, but 1-2 farms near every city is nothing bad - faster growth.
Imagine a city which has only one food coming every turn. Farm increase growth by 100 percent in this case. Fan of whiping like you should not complain about to many farms

I'm not complaining, your save is clearly (at least to me) better than mine.
What I wanted to say is moving the settler and going cottages first would have been even better.
And I disagree with the farms increase growth by 100%. In a FP heavy context, it's totally false.

 

[Giaur]

@cabert:

I said that in critical moment farms can increase growth by 100 percent. Usually it's 20-50 percent.

edit: concerning cottaged city with one additional farm and my city fulfills that conditions (there is no more than one farm and city is fully cottaged)

 

[50_dollar_bag]

Greetings

The votes are in and the results are:
1st Remconius

 

[remconius]

Thank you all for the votes. I guess me and Stuge will be continuing from my save.... anyone else switching?

I am out from Friday evening till Sunday. Partying in Prague with 9 friends. Hopefully I can play tonight, otherwise Monday evening should be possible.

 

[cabert]

congrats Remconius!
As I said, I'm playing "home", probably playing tomorrow.

What's the next checkpoint again?

 

[remconius]

Playing until 1AD, not sure how many turns that is...

Due on Monday

 

[pigswill]

Continuing (actually continued) from my save.

1ad is turn 115.

 

[Giaur]

To animate this topic. My 1AD entry ...

Spoiler :

So whipped worker in capital and started working on Pyramids. Third city was founded 3-4 turns later, after I figured out how to remove annoying barb warrior. He entered ice, and I entered woods - the only spot he could move to was the spot where my warrior was.
Tech path: Fishing->Sailing->Writing->Mathematics->Aesthetics->Polytheism->Literature
Cabert will be displeased with my 5th city. I repeated pigswill's idea and settled on horses. 4th city is between 5th city and capital. 1120BC - Pyramids in. Capital brought with heavy unhealthiness from flood plains - that was another arg tu build aqueduct there (and soon after that - The Hanging Gardens). The whole proocess speeded up birth of our great engineer with unpronouncable name. The choice was easy - The great library. Where? I put it in capital as well. It's 1AD now and another great person will be born in 11 turns. If it is scientist - good: he will build Academy or lightbulb Philosophy. If it is Engineer - even better: he will rush National Epic or lightbulb Machinery (beelining to Optics).
Our axeman discovered the possible location of another civ. Dark blue borders lie beyond the fog of war. But we are not sure if they could be Sumer or American people. Our people are not sure if their workboats are strong enough to make contact with that civ now.

Other news: Susa - whale city - is producing The Moai Statue now. Some cities are resting cause of long slavery work. And we've been tasked to build some libraries in our cities (I do not remember the number of libraries). And I spent 2 turns towards Metal Casting which was a wrong move, I think.

Cities: 5
Population: 24
Beakers: 87 (+2 gold)
Production: 22
Buildings: 4 granaries, 3 libraries, 3 monuments, 2 lighthouse, 1 aqueduct
Units: 1 settler, 5 workers, 2 scouts, 1 immortal, 1 archer, 3 warrior, 2 axe / no unit with 10exp
Wonders: Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, Great Library
Current research: Metal Casting

Poor Remco - cannot choose the save to play ...

 

[cabert]

Here is mine, for 1AD.
Somewhat unfocused (lacking cottages ).

Spoiler :

Summary :
4 cities,
13 pop points
tec researched (the same I already had +) mathematics, currency, masonry (popped from a hut), CoL, myst, meditation, priesthood, 4 turns to monarchy.
gambles : I think I will lose the pyramids soon, with a large lump of gold to finance my expansion.
If I get the pyramids, I certainly won't cry, who would refuse a great engineer?
Specials : I founded confucianism.
GP : none yet.
units : a few (2?) immortals, a few axes (2?), 2 warriors.

What happened?
I sent my worker to connect the horses but he met a barb archer on the walk there. So he backed up and started roading "randomly" (not really, he went on woods I wanted to cut later).
When I saw this, I started an axeman in pasargardae who got built in the nick of time to fend off a large barb assault (3 archers and 1 warrior in 2 turns).
Couldn't settle the stone city I wanted because of barb activities, so went for a coastal sheep overlapping with the capital's cottages city. When I had managed the insurrrection, I whipped a settler as soon as I could for the stone city, but I had the feeling it was too late for the pyramids, so I didn't care to haste the quarry. I got lucky, since the stone city got confucianism = free culture and the quarry is now done.
I won't describe everything I whipped, but it was quite a lot (library in capital, granaries everywhere, lighthouse, ...).

Overall, more a fight against barbs than good progress.

 

[pigswill]

Here's the debacle at 1ad:

Spoiler :

Lots of barbarians around so my cunning plan was to stay small, head towards CoL while building immortals and then capture lots of barb cities that had sprung up in the fog.
The plan worked to a certain extent, I stayed small (founded third city in Whales) and got CoL (and confu) in 500bc. I also had a run on Oracle, at 500bc I was 4 turns from a philosophy slingshot before reality reasserted itself, oh well, got a refund. I built 8 immortals and a couple of axes. The only problem was the lack of barbarian cities, only one was founded, on a hill near the gems. Oops, bad plan.

Techwise it went sailing, writing, med, ph, CoL, IW.

3 cities.
12 pop.
84 gpt
37bpt
15 hammers
1 worker (need a few more!), 2 archers, 2 axes, 8 immoirtals.
Religion Confu
Wonders (SH last round) none new.
GP: GS(academy).
Ambitions: improve.

 

[Cam_H]

Took it from Remco's game ...

Spoiler :

Opening

Persepolis has a Library dialled up, while Pasargadae was micro-ed to work the Stone Quarry.

1480BC - 1000BC

Whipped Persepolis's Library ( > The Pyramids) and the Spear at Pasargadae ( > Granary).

Polytheism > Priesthood

Priesthood > Monotheism (Judaism still open)

Susa: Axe > The Oracle (wary of contamination in Persepolis).

Damn ... missed Judaism in 1080BC

Monotheism (interrupted) > Mathematics

Pasargadae: Granary (interrupt) > Settler

975BC - 500BC

Susa: The Oracle (interrupt) > Axe (whip) ... Barbarian threat - during turnset both Susa and Pasargadae would come under fire.

Persepolis: The Pyramids > Granary

Revolt to Representation

Mathematics > Aesthetics

Lose a Plains Hill Forest in Persepolis's fat-X to an event ... down to three forests, and would later chop one.

Found Ecbatana at Whales - Deer - Sheep.

Ecbatana: Granary
Persepolis: Granary > Axe (running Specialist Scientists)
Parsargade: Granary > Aqueduct
Susa: The Oracle > Axe

(Some juicy tech's available - Construction and Metal Casting included ... took Code of Laws / Confucianism nonetheless).

Revolt to Confucianism (founded in Susa). Confucian Missionary successful in Persepolis.

Persepolis: Axe > Confucian Monestary (chop) > Aqueduct
Pasargadae: Aqueduct > The Hanging Gardens

475BC - 1AD

'Blue tribe' cultural borders across ocean - Sumeria? - spotted in north.

Aesthetics > Literacy

Literacy > Meditation

Meditation > Monotheism

Monotheism > Civil Service

Revolt to Organised Religion

Persepolis: Aqueduct (interrupt) > Confucian Temple > The Great Library
Susa: Axe > Courthouse > Settler
Ecbatana: Granary > Axe

Persepolis: The Great Library > The Hanging Gardens
Pasargadae: The Hanging Gardens (stop ... 50 invested) > Library
Ecbatana: Axe (whip) > Courthouse

Summary

• Total population (#pop heads in your cities): 25
• Number of cities: 4
• Wonders built/planned: The Pyramids, The Oracle, The Great Library, (The Hanging Gardens)
• Units: 6 Axes, 4 Workers, 2 Scouts, 1 Spear, 1 Warrior
• Income: 18 (30% , 70% )
• Expenses: 14
• Techs discovered: Polytheism, Priesthood, Monotheism, Mathematics, Aesthetics, Code of Laws, Literacy, Meditation. Currently: Civil Service.
• Civics: Slavery, Representation, Organised Religion.
• Diplomatic status (OB, War, etc): NA
• Religion: Confucianism (4 cities).
• Great People: Great Engineer used on The Great Library.

Demographics (#1 in pop, #2 in land):

Latter Tech' Screen:

Screenie:

General thoughts:

I was very wary not to over-expand, but soon able to settle far more comfortably - both Persepolis and Pasargadae have healthy growing Cottages, and Courthouses are in play. Just the one Barbarian city - could be a keeper, but has fortified Archers on a Hill. Susa pegged for a specialist city at this point. As noted on the game flags - Workers need to Farm Wheat and build Deer Camp to the west, and Pasargadae could whip its Library (and later Confucian buildings) and not damage its commerce haul.

 

[stuge]

Spoiler :

And boy it feels good. Kudos to remco for a nice save to work on.

For starters, I switched research from poly to math, planning to build the Hanging gardens in Persepolis after the Pyramids, in order to speed up the arrival
of the GE. Of course, free pop and health is never bad. I let the 'Mids complete without chopping or whipping and built the Gardens thereafter in just 8 turns, helped by some chops outside Persepolis' fat cross. Score two wonders in the first 20 turns. I revolted to representation for an immediate boost.

That accounted for my expansion this round. I decided to ignore the south coast and shoot for the gems. And financial+three flood plains+cottages is a combination that makes a far-flung city pay for itself quickly.

While waiting for the GE, I detoured quite a bit from the literature line. Besides aestethics and literature, I picked up fishing and sailing (backfilling for eventual fishing villages) and iron working. Here's what prompted me to look for iron:

It turned out that the city was on a hill and defended by three archers. Fortunately iron did pop up, in the fat crosses of Pasargadae and Persepolis.
I plan to raze that city and found one of my own 1S.

The barbs weren't a problem this time around. Some archers and warriors harassed Susa and I lost a newly built cottage. Two turns worth of growth down the drain. Kill me now. Otherwise the city's garrison of two axes kept the area clear.

I'm not going to get caught pants down by another event though, so Susa and Persepolis kept busy in the last turns by building respectable garrisons for my cities, with two axes and one spear being the standard.

Eventually the GE did appear and he built the Great library in Pasargadae. On this note we shall take a look into city management.

Persepolis is, in a capital fashion, focused on commerce and, to a lesser extent, production. It has all the basic buildings, including walls, which I like to build when I have stone for the castle.

Pasargadae, the science city. I built the GL here because the city has enough food to support the two scientists from the library. I won't be using caste system for a while, so this seemed the best option to start generating GSs, even though there are more food-rich sites available.

Susa is a commerce/production hybrid in the lack of better ideas. I'll probably use the city as a military pump.

Ecbatana is just getting started, but I plan to build the Globe there, putting cottages on the floodplains and farming over the rest. The granary will be whipped for two pop.

Where to now? I'm one turn away from a free GA, both a great artist and a golden age, hehe. (Now kill me.) I'll also pop a GS soon, who'll build an academy in Persepolis. Researchwise currency-> CoL-> CS-> ...-> optics looks like a plan. Expansion will continue once I've assembled six or seven swords.

Game summary
-Total population (#pop heads in your cities): 24
-Number of cities: 4
-Units: 4 workers, a scout, 5 axes, 4 spears, 2 swords
-Economy: 42 in the bank, 101 beakers at -4 gpt

 

[remconius]

Spoiler :

T62: change tech to MC for forge and engineer
T71: spear ready in pasagrade > library
T78: Whip pyramids
. Susa builds Axe > Monument
T79: Pyramids in, revolt to representation > Settler start in capital
T86: MC in > Maths next
T87: Settler ready > Forge
T88: Susa builds barracks > Settler
. Ectbatana founded, library started
T90: Forest grows near ectbatana, great for the library
T93: Maths in > Aestetics
T97: Pasargrade granary > Aquaduct
. Susa builds settler > Axe
T99: Forge ready in persepolis, engineer assigned > Library
T101: Aestetics > Polytheism
T109: Literature > Currency
T110: Ectbatana builds library > GLib
T111: GE is born, heads to ectbantana and build Glib
T113: Great Lib in Ectbatana, +2 scientists is GS in 14 turns.
T115: Currency in > tbd

Status:
5 cities, 28 population
6 workers, 1 scout, 2 warriors, 1 spear, 5 axes
101 bpt at -1 gpt.
GS in 14 turns.
Hanging gardens ready in max 9 turns (gamble).
Plan: expand to 5 more cities and build loads of cottages. Get optics and meet neighbours.

 

[TriviAl]

It's that time of the week again... voting time!

PM me your votes and I'll count them up and announce a winner.

Good luck!

 

[remconius]

Analysis of other games:

Giaur
+Nicely developed cities
+good science rate
+Good wonder development
-I don’t like all wonders in the capital. Mixed great people, plus running 4 scientists is a waste of capital resources, esp with civil service.

Cabert
+I Like location of pasargradae, will use that in my dotmap
+Confucianism and CoL is beneficial
-No wonders
-low population
-Your strategy is focused on early cottages and yet you only generate 37 bpt

Pigswill
+Good attack force to take barb city
+Religion is useful
+CoL helps
+Academy is excellent
-low city and population
-low science rate
-no wonders
-only one worker?!

Next games continued from my save and are similar
Cam
+Wonders: Pyramids, Oracle, Great Lib
+Good science rate
+Close to civil service
+Religion in 4 cities and OR
-only 4 cities

Stuge
+Pyramids and Hanging Gardens to generate GE.
+Great Library
+Good number of units
+Good science rate
-only 4 cities

Remconius
I have a little more population and commerce compared to the other two games, but I have one wonder less. Also less units than Stuge and Cam has more happiness and production from religion.

 

[stuge]

@Giaur:

That wonder pool is nice, although, like remco, I have mixed feelings about the mixed GPP. Scientists and engineers are both useful, of course. MC isn't probably the best tech to research right now, although you could take a bit of a gamble and hope the engineer would arrive to bulb machinery ASAP. It would be interesting to see how early contact and trading with other civs might affect the game.

@Cabert:

Your rather low pop and science rate tell tales of heavy whipping. Once you bring in the HR and religion happies and start mass working cottages, you should be fine.

@Pigswill:

Looks like the barbs won't do your expansion for you. Just build more cities and fast. Courthouses+cottages will help with the costs. If you manage to pop a prophet to build the Kong Miao, prioritising optics to start spreading the faith seriously might be good. The early academy is a definite plus. I have to echo remco on the worker issue.

@Cam:

Representation+bureaucracy+OR will be a strong combo. Grabbing the Oracle and confu was good. Overall I don't see much to nag about. Just focus the next round on expansion. Three floodplains in the NE are calling for you...

@Remco:

Nice expansion. If you get the HG, it'll be a major boost with five cities. Also, the early forges are good. You should go get the gems with all haste. Overall a strong round. Perhaps you have a crack at music? Don't neglect the free GA.

 

[cabert]

@Giaur:

That wonder pool is nice, although, like remco, I have mixed feelings about the mixed GPP. Scientists and engineers are both useful, of course. MC isn't probably the best tech to research right now, although you could take a bit of a gamble and hope the engineer would arrive to bulb machinery ASAP. It would be interesting to see how early contact and trading with other civs might affect the game.

@Cabert:

Your rather low pop and science rate tell tales of heavy whipping. Once you bring in the HR and religion happies and start mass working cottages, you should be fine.

@Pigswill:

Looks like the barbs won't do your expansion for you. Just build more cities and fast. Courthouses+cottages will help with the costs. If you manage to pop a prophet to build the Kong Miao, prioritising optics to start spreading the faith seriously might be good. The early academy is a definite plus. I have to echo remco on the worker issue.

@Cam:

Representation+bureaucracy+OR will be a strong combo. Grabbing the Oracle and confu was good. Overall I don't see much to nag about. Just focus the next round on expansion. Three floodplains in the NE are calling for you...

@Remco:

Nice expansion. If you get the HG, it'll be a major boost with five cities. Also, the early forges are good. You should go get the gems with all haste. Overall a strong round. Perhaps you have a crack at music? Don't neglect the free GA.

thank you for the kind words.
My own assesment of my game is more like "where are the cottages?"

Other than that, I didn't open all the saves (only Giaur's which was available early) and can only say I tend to agree with your evaluation.
It's a bit of a tie between those who used Remco's save and Giaur.
Making 4 "similar" games (I'm sure some differences will show when I open the games, but from just the summaries it's hard to tell).
Then Pigswill and me are trailing behind...