Imperial Trash A+

[stuge]

Some random commentary:

Cam: Your GE usage seems a bit hasty, although it gave a very solid benefit there and then. Science rate needs some attention, it's not bad but could definetly be improved. Any ideas on how to deal with Zara? I'm thinking that some Privateers would be nice...

Giaur: Going for domination, eh? Looking good in that regard. I recommend focusing on the downline military techs and getting some privateers out to gain xp for GGs and HE, WP too.

Remco: Looking good, I see nothing to gripe about. Impressive beaker rate.

Cabert: Some advice on using the GE: Taj is 700 hammers, SoL is 1500, but you have copper. So if you you rush the Taj, you'll get the GA, and SoL in the time it'd take to build the Taj the hard way.

 

[cabert]

I think you're right about the GE, stuge.
If I rush the taj in some city where I don't fear a great person too soon, I can switch to emancipation + universal suffrage (I have enough happiness!), making the towns around persepolis give 2 hammers each = getting the SoL a lot faster.

 

[Giaur]

@Stuge: Thx for pointing ussage of Privateers to uncluck HE. I'd rather wait for industrial age - get Fascism and unlock HE then. It will be more chalenging . But thx anyway.

In general: Those who played from early Remconius version do not actually know that you can upgrade some unit and unlock Heroic Epic.

Also - all of you are spending Espionage points on all of your opponents. Would not it be better to check one victim instead? Remember - when you are spending EP on everyone - everyone is spending EP on you.

And now my victims:
@Cabert: Score: 1743 - the highest (among the players), wow. Cities are big, research is great, production is strong. Oxford completed. Democracy in. Angkor Wat completed :goodjob. But, many cities are missing forges Enough happiness resources, but no specified buildings built (forges, theatres (no Drama , markets. You decided on cathedrals instead - rather expensive buildings. Btw. be careful with those harbours - if you build to many of them, you might find yourself in a situation, where your non-caostal capital is without foreign trade route. In general: strong position, but Democracy is rather an expensive tech. And - strong production - why not to multiply production (forges)? I build them in every city (even low-production).

@Remconius:
Score: 1730. Cities are big, research is great, production is medicore. You should start working grass farm instead of plain cottage in your capital I think (similar situation to my own - only I can boost food more quickly). Happiness cap counts 20. The funny thing is that all other cities has solid growth - but not your most important city Well developed capital - :goodjob. NE in a wonder city, but only 9 base great person rate. The good thing is great engineer rate. No medicore buildings in your cities - well balanced strategy (strategy intuition) - only stop producing bank in 13 commerce city . No HE because many trade transactions are done, and HR is your goverment. It would be better to produce the same amount of troops - only better trained. But now many trade transactions are many - you can simply start disbanding units and easily switch to US or Representation, unless you wish to have 20 pop cities at the end of next turnset Two great person in your disposition - great. Forbiden Palace nice. Well chosen 3rd academy destination. Perhaps it's better to work spy in Gordium instead of scientist. Silver - great. Strong position.

@Stuge:
Score: 1464, but only 2 turns to Democracy. Cities are big, but there are some small ones. Strong research&production. First thing - stop working citizen in a capital. Free religion and confucian monastery is beiing built? Angkor Wat is almost built - are you sure you do not want it? Little played with no better concept - no NE, Moai Statue yet. The good thing are the forests - with Hanging Gardens they will be very helpful in industrail age. Similar general concept to my own - means "Take it easy" - leave some forests and do not build medicore buildings - only I do not work weak tiles. Build more workers or wake them Great engineer - nice. Well developed capital :goodjob. Last thing: I am not sure if FR is that great in this case: UoS, temples and 1 cathedral built and only one religion present. btw. I think FR is one of the weakest civics.

@Cam_H:
Cities are big, research is strong, production is great. Score 1632. FB palace - nice. National Epic city - hmmm. There are many flood plains (rice city), but only one food resource. I would put that wonder in a wonder city (better great engineer rate). Superspecialists - they are less effective under Universal Suffrage. Developed capital :goodjob. GP's were used properly (no lightbulbing) and great merchant is heading to ToA, but Arabians are annoyed with you - watch out . In general - you focus too much on medicore buildings. While markets&monasteries are welcomed in a capital (big boost under Bure), the same buildings in any other city are problematic, I think - they are expensive. Temples&Coloseums are even weaker - they are to be build - but no earlier than industrial age. It would be better to produce wealth instead or let your cities grow (prioritize food, not production).

@Giaur:
Cities are medium-sized (some big cities and some small cities). Research&Production are hard to tell, but the second one could be nice I think. Score: 1635. Base great person rate in my NE city is 20 (artist 15, scientist 50, engineer 35). Growth in my capital is the weakest, but I can steal farmed flood plain from nearby city. Capital focused more on wonders than on buildings (NE, UoS). 6 jewish buildings built, but only 6 cities converted. The same superspecialist instead of Academy and all seems that Universal Suffrage is the way to go for me (domination). Good thing that Ecbatana is surrounded by 6 forests - great both for IronWorks and National Park. Also many forests preserved near other cities. My game will support great production in a future (access to rivers, AP religion, many forests - better than workshops). Great for domination, but also for Space. I can chop big part of space part in my Ecbatana. If it is Ironworks city, I can get 30*6*300%=540 hammers in one turn at least.

Caution: Edited :/

 

[remconius]

Thank you, for the analysis Giaur and the tips.

Not much to add, although I did have a look at the saves last night.

Some small comments:
@cabert: Great pop and science rate although I dont understand Angor Wat.

@Stuge: Bit weaker in all departments, but still great potential.

@Giaur: Well on track for a good victory. You are using NE to the max.

@ Cam_H: Great production, bit weaker in science dept.

Comments on my own game. I built NE in the capital with the only purpose to increase GE points. Bit expensive I know, but I expect to get quite a few GEs. This allows Mining Inc, and construction of wonders. Not sure if it will pay out in the end, but it seemed like a worthwhile strategy in this game.

I'm thinking of using the next turnset to get more Great people:
-Build Sid's Sushi with my saved Merchant. Adds around 5 food to all cities.
-Build the national park and forest preserves in Gordium.
-Build Statue of Liberty.
-Run pacifism, representation, and perhaps mercantilism.

 

[TriviAl]

We have a winner!

Congratulations to:

Spoiler :

remconius

 

[remconius]

Well thanks all...

I was thinking cabert's advantage in tech and population would be decisive. My estimate is that he will pull away in the next turnset.

I'll do my best to keep up or do better, though

 

[Giaur]

Yes, congrats again. Hattrick (I do not know the spelling).

 

[stuge]

Giaur: Thanks for pointing out the citizen, stupid governor...

The reason I switched to FR is that I want to keep foreign trade going. My happy caps have risen, thanks to numerous resource trades. Bigger cities>religious wonders.

Will have to wait and see how diplomacy plays out. The lovefest on Zara's continent scares me. I'm wondering if it were feasible to convert Arabia to confucianism with boatloads of missionaries. I don't have much trade with Saladin and some "heathen" points would hopefully spice things up over there...

How long should the next set be?

 

[cabert]

I guess we stick to the 40 turns set.
Don't know the date that goes with this. Probably 1650.

edit: congrats again, remco.
I'll play my "new home" (3/4 remco, 1/4 cabert, hard to call this "home")

 

[remconius]

Shall we say 40 turns again.

Or is there a good reason shorten sets at this stage?

 

[remconius]

40 turns it is then...

@cabert: after this set it'll be 3/5 remco, 2/5 cabert... I was impressed by the beaker rate you developed. And I though I did good at 730 bpt.

 

[cabert]

40 turns it is then...

@cabert: after this set it'll be 3/5 remco, 2/5 cabert... I was impressed by the beaker rate you developed. And I though I did good at 730 bpt.

wait until I rush the taj

 

[Giaur]

Played home again ... The report:

Spoiler :

Research path: Banking -> Economics -> RP -> Steam Power -> Drama -> Steal -> Constitution -> Democracy -> Corporation -> Scientific Method -> Communism -> Military Tradition -> Biology.
Some of them were traded, other were self-researched.
Current research is on Medicine to found Sid-Sushi.

It was a peaceful turnset. We kept spreading judaism in our cities and used our left golden age to build some universities and jewish buildings. Then two great merchants were born. One of them was burned for gold. Oxford was completed. In 1460AD our wheat city was founded. In 1540AD our 3rd golden age begun (scientist&merchnt were burned). 1555AD scientist was born and he built another (3rd) academy. We adopted US to multiply production. To multiply it more, we buy-rushed leeves for gold from that merchant. Before golden age ended we made another civic switch. We get great spy from Communism. In 1615AD we completed SoL. At the same time we completed Ironworks. In 1645AD we completed the Kremlin.

Statistics:
Research: 1075 without losing money
Production: 345
Army: medicore
Population: 134
GP's: 2 GP's are available (merchant, spy); 13 GP's were born altogether; next GP in 10 turns.
Wonders: Oxford, Ironworks, SoL, Kremlin
Buildings: leeves, universities, temples, colloseum quest completed
also some synagoges, theatres and observatories

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/70897/Giaur_s_game_AD-1650.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[cabert]

played home too

Spoiler :

zara yakob declared war on me!
I'm not sure I can hold my HE city!

summary : 11 cities, 157 pop points
1100 bpt at 70% science, with +225gpt (need to buy troops)
wonders built : taj mahal (rushed with the GE), Statue of liberty, kremlin
+ HE, national park,
National epic and iron works under way
got the free great merchant from economics, the free great scientist from physics, the free great spy from communism,
teched up to railroad, including :
1) engineering, guilds, theology (trade with zara yakob), banking, economics (free GM settled in persepolis which needed food)
2)gunpowder, chemistry, scientific method, biology (started national park!)
3) drama (stolen from gilgamesh, I'm not very good with the EPs, but a freebie is always sweet),
physics (free GS! + airships), repleaceable parts, rifling (for rifles obviously)
4) steam power for levees (need to build a few of those, only one done by now), we have coal!
5) steel (started ironworks), railroad
5) started military science, but don't need it really (should go to infantry instead)

what happened?
I moved the GE to pasargardae, and rushed the taj there.
I traded something (music as far as I remember) to zara yakob for theology.
I traded stone to saladin for Gold (the yellow thing) and gold (per turn).
I was tasked to build colosseums for the sport league. Ok, I need the happiness anyway.
I switched civics to universal suffrage, and emancipation, keeping bureaucracy and org rel while building the SoL
I built infra all over the place.
Got a GS in ekbanata (from the great library) and used him on an academy in ...ecbanata (I had to think twice, and moved the GS back and forth, but it certainly was the best spot).
On the last turn of the Golden Age, I switched to free speech, free market and free religion (losing the beakers from the temples is no big deal, I get more from the +10%, and diplo was tough).
I stole drama from gilgamesh,
finished the statue of liberty, discovered in fast order biology, then physics (used the GS for another academy in tarsus, you guessed it I plan to tech fast )
I then teched to communism for the free Great spy and the kremlin (may as well use that stone right? and since I'm planning on a large scale use of universal suffrage, the kremlin certainly is a good wonder).
I completed the colosseum quest and chose +1 happiness for colosseums. Now they are pretty good happiness providers .

At some point I cheked zara's trade screeen (I was a bit sloppy, it's very possible he was already WHEOOH a long time before) and saw this :

I didn't think I would be the target, but with my low power, I thought better to build some troops.
rifles, a few (2) airships, I rushed the HE in ecbanata to get faster troops, redispatched existing troops.
I used my airships as coast guards, my privateers as foreign coast checkers and saw this :

I moved all I could towards ecbanata, started an ironclad, hoping to hurt the fleet, but it was a bit pointless (1 ironclad vs 2 frigates and a horde of galleons ).

Here is the situation on the final turn. I suicided a bunch of cannons against the stack after my 2 airships striked, I even used a catapult to make some further colateral.
Good thing that cannon can't kill units anymore .

I guess this unwanted war is not a good point for my save.

the save

 

[remconius]

Spoiler :

201:
Nationalism > constitution
Taj Mahal Rushed

202:
Taj Mahal completed.
Free civics change to Free Market, Representation, Pacifism

204:
Constitution > Democracy
GE is born

208:
Democracy > Corporation

209:
Corporation > Gunpowder
Free Civics change to Emancipation

210:
End of Golden Age
Science rate is 1000
Gunpowder >Chemistry

211:
Hurry ½ Statue of Liberty
Trade with Zara for Drama (to keep him happy)

212:
Chemistry > Scientific Method
Great Scientist Born

215:
Scientific Method > Biology

216:
Trade for Replaceable parts

218:
Academy built in Bactra as it has future potential.

221:
Biology > Medicine (for Sid’s Sushi)

223:
Make bunch of trades for cash and to appease the AI.

226:
Statue of Liberty built
Medicine in > Physics next
Sid Sushi built in Tarsus
Trade with AI for Sid Sushi resources. Each city belonging to this corporation gets +6 food.

230:
Physics (free GS) > Steel

233:
Civics changed to Free Religion and Free Speech

235:
Steel > Steam Power

237:
Steam Power > Railroad

Status:
11 Cities, 158 pop

Science rate: 1390 bpt at -15 gpt (700 in the bank)

Civics: Representation, Free Speech, Emancipation, Free Market, Free Religion.
Corporations: Sid’s Sushi (+6 food), Engineer ready for Mining inc (+6 hammers)
Politics: Pleased (Zara +5, Gilga +6, Sally +4, Carlemagne +7, Church +6) Cautous (Brennus +2)
Techs: Railroad in 2.

Great people born: 2 GS born (1 from physics), 2 GE born
Great People used: GE used for Taj mahal, GE used for ½ SoL, 2 GS for academies (Ectbana and Bactra), 1 GM for Sid’s Sushi, 1 GE remaining for Mining Inc.

Plans:
-Spread Sid’s Sushi to all cities and then to Charlemagne and Churchill (can be convinced to switch to Free Market) and other when they get out mercantilism (gifting them economics I am such a nice guy).
-National Park in 7 turns (7 forests, 1 potential)
-Wall street in less than 27 turns in Tarsus (2 corporations)
-Meanwhile tech onto computers and build labs. Maybe pick up great spy and kremlin along the way.

 

[stuge]

Spoiler :

Goddammit...

Built the SoL with the help of a GE. Picked up the free GM from economics. Traded a little to backfill older techs. Teched to chemistry and started building privateers with the intent to hurt Zara at least a little.

As my first privateer left port, it revealed an Ethiopian galleon just off my borders. There wasn't a spot on the island for him to settle and my nearest coastal city was protected by a couple of longbows. I thought about it for a good while. One galleon seemed ridiculous for an invasion force but I dialed Zara up and he had his hands full, so I decided to err on the side of caution and sunk that galleon. "No worries. Achieving naval superiority shouldn't be hard with enough frigates."

Some turns later, I got buried in DOWs. Apparently Zara got everyone on his continent attack me. I think he used astronomy as the bribe, because at least Brennus lacked it beforehand. My delusions of naval superiority quickly vanish as the fleets show up. Wave after wave of galleons with Zara's frigates mixed in. There was no way to stop them all and the war moved onto land.

I had rifles by that point, but it was hardly a saving grace. I scraped together
as much of them as I could but to no avail. The enemy forces were pretty medieval, Zara's Oromos were the hi-tech end, but they didn't need a cutting edge. Trebs wear rifles down quite nicely. I should know, I smacked Mansa once that way.

As the turns neared 240, I lost Tarsus, Pasargadae and Persepolis. On 236 I quit and went to shoot people until I felt better.

Virtually, of course.

 

[cabert]

stuge, I think this game hates you
I'm laughing because I can already feel it comingthe same way for me, and am somewhat relieved to see I'm not alone.

 

[Cam_H]

I'm not sure if I need spoilers ... but ...

Spoiler :

Played ‘away’, taking Remco’s 1400AD game seeing that I was very wary of the AI on the other continent in my game, and Remco also got Oxford up.

Overall, another ‘workmanlike’ round I suspect compared to others’ … respectable and sound but hardly dazzling. I guess the main issue being that I’ve got to Assembly Line and built up a small but technologically advanced military presence. I also ran at 10% espionage for a fair swag of my turnset in order to get a better feel of the PowerChart. Built; The Taj Mahal, Heroic Epic, and Ironworks – burned my Great Engineers on The Taj and Ironworks … a decision that would later backfire as I popped an against-the-odds (15%) Great Artist and unable to immediately found Mining Inc. as planned.

Avoided all wars – Saladin’s had enough on his hands for most of the turnset, but it would seem that we’re not his intended target (he’s Pleased and wants to sign a Defensive Pact). Brennus has just declared on Zara, and will probably get killed in doing so. There’s a dogpiling opportunity in that Darius could bribe Saladin to attack Zara, but this could happen naturally. About halfway through the turnset Zara converted to Christianity and broke the Jewish bloc.

Not enough to even think about resting on our laurels, but our military now includes; 7 Machine Guns, 8 Cuirassiers, 4 Cannons, 4 Privateers, a Frigate, and an Infantry unit. Didn’t touch Remco’s Great Merchant (Sid’s Sushi when we get there), and as above we have a Great Artist. We’re still the tech’ leader by a considerable margin – Democracy’s tradable but The Statue of Liberty’s gone.

The only civic swap was to flip into Free Market during the Taj Mahal Golden Age.

Gilgamesh has settled at the north eastern peninsula – an opportunist city only with no resources. There’s the Deer-Oil-Riverside city in the Tundra to the south that I’m building a Settler for.

Status:

• Cities: 11
• Population: 151
• Science rate: 901 bpt
• Taxes: 186 in, 184 out
• Great People: Resident Great Merchant unused but moved to Persepolis, resident Great Engineer burned on The Taj Mahal, popped Great Engineer burned on Ironworks, popped Great Artist unused.
• Wonders: Taj Mahal in Bactra, Ironworks in Susa, Heroic Epic in Sardis
• Civics: Hereditary Rule, Bureaucracy, Slavery, Free Market, Organised Religion.
• Religion: Confucianism (11 cities).
• New Techs: Gunpowder, Chemistry, Steel, Military Tradition, Replaceable Parts, Steam Power, Constitution, Divine Right, Railroad, Corporation, Drama, Assembly Line, Rifling, Scientific Method, (Physics in 6 ... Great Scientist available).

Saladin is the PowerChart leader by a smallish margin, but he's just slipped back to 'invisible'.

The three big players are 'Pleased' with us, as is Churchill after a cheap tech' sale - Charlemagne and Brennus are Cautious.

Screenshot - if you squint you might make out some details! Many Factories going up, Susa's working on The Pentagon.

We're the tech' leaders, and as before, we can trade for Democracy if we want. Gilgamish admittedly can also chase the Physics free Great Scientist.

[Edit] Tuomas! Unbelievable bad luck ! It can happen to anyone. [/Edit]

 

[cabert]

I think we have all the saves we're going to get.
TriviAl, still with us for beans counting?

 

[TriviAl]

Happy to do some more counting! Send em over.