Imperial Trash A+

[Cam_H]

As much as I liked Remconius' game I played 'Home' to 1400AD.

Spoiler :

In summary, I’d say that the 1000AD-1400AD was an adequate turnset, but no quests and no popped metals out of Mines … indeed the only event was a slave uprising that was detrimental to my capital in the middle of my Golden Age.

On the plus side, generally I was happy with the technology path taken and I settled three cities as intended. I picked up the free Great People from Music (Great Artist later used on a Golden Age) and Economics (as at 1400AD on a Caravel heading towards the other continent). Three Great Scientists were settled. I have met all tribes, have a great map, picked up the Liberalism slingshot for Astronomy, got the circumnavigation bonus, and am the technology leader – up Gunpowder {except Holy Roman}, Astronomy, and Economics (Persia is down unnecessary technologies; Archery, Theology, Divine Right).

I have some regrets – I spent almost all of the turnset constructing buildings in almost every city, and yet stuck with Pacifism throughout whereas a swap back to Organised Religion probably would have meant that I would have completed the required Universities and got Oxford University up. I was desperate to get The Forbidden Palace built, and opted for a speedy rather than optimal city in Tarsus that has the awkward combination of The National Epic and The Forbidden Palace.

A little unlucky too in that events did not go my way when comparing Remconius’ and Giaur’s games, and rather than having equal-ish competitors or at least a few strong tribes, in this game Ethiopia has become a monster. Invasion to the north seems quite possible in time, and indeed may be required to out-perform Zara Yaqob.

Being the only tribe with Astronomy, the continent is safe for now, but the production of superior units (Privateers and Grenadiers) will be required as our empire’s army is undeveloped.

Status:

• Cities: 10
• Population: 91
• Science rate: 489 bpt
• Taxes: 116 in, 89 out
• Great People: Three Great Scientists settled in Persepolis, Great Engineer used to hurry The Forbidden Palace, free Great Artist used for first Golden Age, free Great Merchant unused and heading overseas.
• Wonders: Forbidden Palace and National Epic built in Tarsus.
• Civics: Representation, Bureaucracy, Slavery, Decentralisation* (swap needed), Pacifism.
• Religion: Confucianism (9 of 10) is the State religion, also Taoism (3 of 10).
• New Techs: Music, Drama, Calendar, Compass, Machinery, Optics, Alphabet, Currency, Liberalism, Astronomy, Construction, Guilds, Horseback Riding, Feudalism, Engineering, Gunpowder, Banking, Economics, (Chemistry in two).

* Economics picked up on the final turn ... revolution not initiated so game comparisons can be made, but a civic shift should be the first matter attended to.​

Ahead:

Civic swap required at least from Decentralisation to Free Market, although other civic options should be reviewed.

Hittite to finish its University so that Persepolis can build Oxford.

Very poor military requires attention – Sumeria and England both backward and could in time be invaded (I'm assuming a Space victory).

Ethiopia is the stand out AI tribe and one of significant concern to me, with a ‘Jewish love-in’ on the other continent that includes the Apostolic Palace. As well or poorly as I might have played this round, I feel that I should say that this situation on the other continent should count as a negative point of consideration for my game when thinking about voting for this turnset.

 

[Giaur]

@Cam - Were you tasked to build Coloseums?

 

[Cam_H]

Giaur,

Nope - just lack of luxury resources (and unwillingness to trade for a certain resource due to "You have traded with our worst enemy" modifier).

 

[remconius]

You are right about the low food in my capital, so what I decided to do is farm the floodplains. This way I can work all the cottaged (river) plains. With Sid's sushi (and emancipation) they can be returned to towns. I will save the Great merchant from economics for Sid's raw fish palace.

I am focusing on an early 1900 Spaceship launch.

 

[Giaur]

Here is my save and the picture ...

Spoiler :

First thing I did - half lightbulbed Education. Acording to Remconius advice, scientist went north and built academy in Pasargadae. Not the best commerce city, but the best I had got then. It's coastal. I was spreading islam in my cities and was keeping to suicide plan - I stayed with pacifism. Our neighbour (Gilgamesh) completed AP. Liberalism in 1200AD. Also another scientist was born in that turn. I had 2 of them now, so I settled one in SSC. Not the best idea, when you switch to US. 2 turns later great thing happened - judaism, AP religion, spread to one of our cities. I chopped monastery there quickly (no Slavery&Org.Religion could hurt). We missed Angkor Wat. In 1230AD we completed The spiral minaret. Turn after that - UoS. We should convert to judaism quickly to get 2hammers, 2 beakers, 2 coins boost. Around 1250AD first caravel left the port. 10th city was founded in 1300AD - it had access to river. Then great merchant was born. We met Zara Yakob and he gave us marble. Nationalism seemed nice after that. 1360AD great engineer was born in the capital and he rushed Taj Mahal quickly. It was the right time to trigger golden age and focus on infra. Finally we could switch back to Org.Rel&Slavery with no anarchy (spiritual seems less attractive now, does not it) Finally 1390AD we have been tasked to build 7 colosseums. Chemistry in.

Research path: Currency -> Calendar (trade) -> Education (half lightbulbed) -> Compass -> Machinery -> Optics -> Liberalism -> Astro (freebie) -> Feudalism (trade) -> PP -> Engineering (trade) -> Gunpowder -> Nationalism -> Guilds (trade) -> Chemistry
9 GP's were born so far. 2 are waiting for orders (merchant, scientist), 1 is to be born in 6 turns (most likely another merchant). Economics should provide is with 3rd one.
Wonders: Spiral Minaret, UoS, National Epic (in our capital)
Civics: Rep, B, Slavery, D, Org.Religion
6 turns of golden age left
Most advanced techs: Chemistry, Astronomy, Nationalism
Infra: most of our cities have forges and libraries. All of them have courthouses, granaries, lighthouses. Some jewish buildings built.
2 academies, 1 superspecialist.
Research&Production could be misleading cause golden age is triggered.
600 beakers with losing 18 coins (medicore)
197 hammers (strong)
Average growth: 3.4
All rivals met and we should circumnavigate the globe next turn.
Weak military and no HE
7 specialists and 31 cottages are worked..

 

[remconius]

Spoiler :

165: Machinery > Compass

166: Compass > Optics

170: Gilgamesh shows up, I trade calendar, construction, priesthood, meditation, worldmap for music,compass
Optics comes in, two caravels are started > Philosophy

171: National Epic in capital, +14 GE and +2 GA.
Trireme loses to barb galley
Great Engineer is born, parked.
Caravels whipped.

175: Philosophy in, Taoism founded.

176: Saladin shows up, trading waits for more contacts.

177: Zara Yacob says hi.

180: Theology through trade with Zara.
Quest: to build 7 colloseums!

182: Liberalism in, Astronomy is the free tech!
Maoi statues in Ectbana.

183: Oxford completed in Persepolis.
Great scientist born
Astronomy > Fuedalism
Trade HBR, Monarchy, Alphabet from new neighbours

184: Complete quest to build coloseums! All coloseums are now +2 happy
Feudalism > Guilds
Academy built in Tarsus from GS.

Event of minor nuissance:

187: Guilds > Banking

189: Banking > economics
We're first to circumnavigate the world!

191: Mission accomplished, coloseums +2!

192: Forbidden Palace completed on the west coast.

193: Economy in, Great merchant is ours.

197: Printing Press > nationalism

198: AS I was sailing merrily accross the great ocean, a pleasant message reached me:

We discover silver in a mine

Turn 200:
Engineering through trade.

Lay of the lands:

Improvements and units:

Wonders:

Status:
Cities: 11
Population: 98
Science rate: 730 bpt
Taxes: -2 gpt (309 gold in the bank)
Great People: GS used for academy, GE and GM waiting for orders. Next GE (80%) in 6 turns.
Wonders: Oxford in Persepolis, Forbidden Palace in Dariush Kabir, Maoi Statues in Ectabana.
Civics: HR, Bureau, OR. Need to change to free market.
Religion: All cities confused.
New Techs: Machinery, Compass, Optics, Calendar, construction, prieshood, meditation, philosophy, theology, liberalism, astronomy, monarchy, alphabet, HBR, fuedalism, guilds, banking, economics, Printing press, engineering, nationalism (1)

Next plans:
-Taj mahal with great engineer, gives golden age. End of golden age used to change civics.
-Emancipation, to slow AI down.
-Build Eiffel tower for free specialists.
-Biology and medicine for Sid's Sushi to increase growth.
-Railroad for Mining Inc.

 

[Giaur]

@Remconius:
Are you sure that researching those cheap techs was neccessity?
Silver -

So guys what do you think of golden age. Free civic switch. Spiritual seems less powerful. I guess in vanilla was such option. Shame I know about that now. In BtS one specialist can trigger golden age - it makes spiritual trait even less useful.

 

[remconius]

I traded for quite a few cheap techs. And most techs only take 1-4 turns anyway...

 

[Cam_H]

So guys what do you think of golden age. Free civic switch. Spiritual seems less powerful. I guess in vanilla was such option. Shame I know about that now. In BtS one specialist can trigger golden age - it makes spiritual trait even less useful.

- and if that's not enough nerfing; Cristo Redentor.

Spiritual is still handy for a mid-game religious-based cultural win, with a few civic swaps and cheap Temples count for a lot if you're building four or five in many cities.

(b.t.w. I've added a report to my game above in #121 - shorter than usual. Good looking games Giaur and Remco!)

 

[cabert]

played from remco's save (what's the point of offering a game, if it's going to be permanently behind?)

the save

Spoiler :

changed a few things (inserted priesthood in the tech queue )
but went in the general liberalism route hoping for free astronomy.
what happened:
- got astro indeed for free
- met all leaders (one missing but a caravel is on the way)
- built ankor wat blush: no priests assigned nowhere)
- built the oxford university in persepolis (wrong choice probably, some cities have higher base commerce)
- built the moai statues where started (after a work boat and a caravel )
- teched up to democracy, started SoL ( 1 GE is ready to go), also started taj mahal, and hoping to change civics using this golden age, but it's a bit far away.
- opened borders with everyone (not the smartest diplomatic move, but a good economic boost)
- put all my spy points towards gilgamesh


summary :
106 pop (no new city, so still 10)
techs : priesthood (for temples asap), then all it took to get optics (machinery...), then traded for construction + calendar and a few other things (alaphabet probably) with gilgamesh, philo (got taoism, didn't want it), liberalism (astro for free), printed press (for the commerce boost), nationalism, constitution, democracy
to do : switch to emancipation, universal suffrage, free speech (FR may be good too, although losing UoS's advantages). I have a great engineer in store to rush either the taj for the golden age or the SoL (I think the choice isn't obvious : no one seems to have marble, the taj isn't really in danger right now)

 

[Giaur]

As promised ... Remco's version brought different results.

Spoiler :

++ better infra
++ better research
++ Constitution, Corporation, Economics
++ Angkor Wat
++ Oxford University
+ slightly better production
-- few cities with access to water (basically things you cannot change at this stage)

My version:
+ Gunpowder, Chemistry
++ more great people born
++ Spiral Minaret
++ AP religion present
++ cities with access to water & chemistry in (opens steam power)

In both versions decided to rush Taj Mahal. Playing Remconius version, I optimized research mainly (under golden age it was over 1000). But if I played it more seriously, I would probably choose another tech path. The problem was that Golden Age gave more under my version. Simply I was far behind in infra - missed both universities&observatories. In Remconius version I could build observatories&jails or observatories&knights. That's why good planning is required when taking into consider golden age. Cities in Remconius version are bigger due to HR. When Astro was in and golden age started, switched to US.

I remind, that I decided to submit my version. I won't leave the second save, just not to do mess here .

btw. one more word about golden age.
I observed some similarity conserning my own games ...
First is usually triggered to build universities and speed up Oxford University. The second one is usually triggered when my cottages are developed. I can switch to US. Grassland/floodplain towns produce 2 hammers instead of zero. Before the whole process I rush-buy leeves, to multiply production.
Third Golden Age is between the first and second one and is optional (Taj Mahal) and it gives not much.
Fourth Golden Age - two options:
a) rush-buy coal plants before the proccess, then start pumping units, ... or
b) coal plants are built, and Radio is in, 3 important wonders to build ... or
c) a + b. In this case I research Radio first, then research Assembly line.
Or Electricity -> Assembly Line (but with no rush buy) -> Radio
Depends.
I just love golden age

/:edited:/

 

[cabert]

giaur, I'm unsure if having the AP's religion is really a good thing if you aren't the AP resident.

 

[stuge]

My save:

The Emperor's new clothes.

I'll post the report tomorrow (for real this time) and maybe some commentary, if you all are nice.

 

[stuge]

Spoiler :

Research

Music (GA)-> currency-> Col (Grabbed Confucianism. I could have sworn that it had been taken already!)-> Meditation&priesthood (To get temples&monasteries.)-> CS-> Philosophy (Didn't get Taosim but did switch to pacifism&bureaucracy.)-> Backfilling (calendar, MC, compass, machinery)-> paper-> education-> liberalism (Around 1130 AD.)-> nationalism for free (To build the Taj Mahal.)-> optics (Met the world.)-> astronomy (To get some resource deals going.)-> printing press-> constitution-> democracy (ETA 5 turns.)

Great people

4 scientists, 2 engineers and an artist. Two of the scientists built academies in Persepolis and Pasargadae and the other two were merged into Persepolis. One of the engineers was a planned one from Persepolis and built the Taj Mahal. The other one was a lucky break from Pasargadae, 5% odds or something, and prompted me to go for democracy and SoL. The artist was used for a 16 turns golden age with the Taj.

Golden age

This was the feature of these rounds. It gave me lots of techs and a solid infrastructure. Two GS and one GE appeared during it. Shame that there was no marble on the island.

Foreign

It seemed that someone was really suffering when four great generals were born in a distant land during this round. When I discovered the big continent, it turned out that Saladin had vassalised Charlemagne. Ethiopia is really scary, with nearly 2000 points. This game won't stay peaceful to the end.

I didn't trade any techs but I made several resource deals which raised the happy caps nicely along with trade route income. It remains to be seen how many of those deals I can keep going when the buddhists, A.K.A Gilgamesh and Churchill, meet the jew, A.K.A everyone else.

Domestic

I settled the whole island before 1400 AD. Now it's just a case of maximizing population, research and production.

Wonders

I built the Taj for the GA and the University of Sankore because I could. I've also built the Angkor Wat to one turn before completion hoping for some AI to build it soon. The SoL will be built ASAP.

I have one university in production right now and when I whip it, Oxford will be built in Persepolis. Tarsus (sheep, deer & whales) is building the Moai.

Overall

I'm quite happy with these 95. I only screwed up once, when I intended to switch to free religion on the last turn of the GA, forgot about it and had to switch next turn, with anarchy and chips.

Informative screenies:

 

[cabert]

I think we have all games we're going to get (no sign of pigswill these days),
so I assume it is safe to start voting.
TriviAl, as usual?

 

[TriviAl]

I'm happy to count again!

RE the Spiritual nerfing - still find it really useful for hopping between 2 civics frequently - eg - Slavery/Caste System - to run specialists with the occasional whip or Organised Religion/Theocracy - to optimise infra/military builds. The GA thing isn't good for that kind of play - happens too often - although it rocks for the major swaps. Think it's a great trait - just requires a lot of micromanagement - more than I'm up for normally tbh.

Bouncing ideas around, I'd quite like to see a change whereby you could spend a specialist to make a civic swap without anarchy - and that's all you get from burning that one - separate that bonus from the GA mechanics. - Disclaimer - havn't thought this idea through fully - so may be a gaping flaw somewhere.

 

[pigswill]

I'm lurking but still not playing. Haven't opened any games coz I'll probably run through this at some point.

 

[Cam_H]

Hi guys,

It is highly unlikely that I will be able to vote this round ... it's probable I'll be moving house this weekend and will get 'neutered' if I even think about spending time with Civ.

I'll endeavour to play the next round by bringing my discs up to my workplace next week.

As per the traditional 'trash' rules, if I don't vote then my six votes should be divided evenly between the eligible games other than my own.

I'll let you know a.s.a.p. if I can get back in 'the Civ saddle' sooner than expected ... but basically, please proceed without me for the time being.

 

[cabert]

I read all the reports (can't open the saves right now, not even mine ) and tried to see how the games went.

Cabert
106 pop points in 10 cities,
major techs in : astro and democracy
oxford, Moai statues built, useless Ankor Wat built
taj started, SoL started
at risk diplomatically (open borders all around, traded for techs all around, random resource trades)
(small point : I didn't build the national epic, because I want the national park + national epic in the eastern forested city)

Stuge
89 pop in 10 cities
major techs : astro and democracy in 5
Taj built, ankor wat ready to be missed.
at risk diplomatically (open borders all around)

Remconius
98 pops in 11 cities
major techs : astro and economics (nationalism coming soon)
NE, xford, Forbidden palace, Moai statues built
I have no idea of the diplomatic situation.

Giaur
83 pop points in 10 cities
major techs : astro and chemistry (PP and nationalism also in)
Spiral minaret and UoS + jewish (AP religion) combo.
Switching to judaism seems to make for a better diplo situation.

Cam_h
91 pop in 10 cities
major techs : astro and economics, (chemistry in 2)
FP and NE built

Feel free to express your disagrement before i vote .

 

[Giaur]

Cabert: Population in my save is 83.