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Imperialism With Lua

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Scenario League' started by Prof. Garfield, Nov 10, 2018.

  1. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Chieftain

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    For a while, I've been thinking about re-working the Imperialism scenario using Lua events and functionality. These are some ideas I've had:

    Use Aqueduct and Sewers to designate regional population size, while actual city size represents population involved in the global economy. So, for example, if China is mostly subsistence farmers, they would have Aqueduct and Sewer, but small city size. So they have a lot of potential, but only if significant effort is put into developing that economy. Whereas most Canadian cities would never grow beyond size 8, regardless of how much effort is put into them.

    The presence of aqueducts and sewers would also provide other bonuses and penalties that make sense with larger populations. E.g. build 1 labourer and get 1 more free for each 'population' structure, but building a school would first require an 'extra effort' improvement in the city, to represent the increased costs of educating a larger population.

    If a city has no courthouse, that represents a sort of indirect rule of a colony (e.g. the Imperial Power sets up a local leader, who actually administers the territory). Building a courthouse would represent direct administration of the colony, which might make the colony more valuable to the player, but would be expensive and require a permanent troop commitment (and maybe trigger a rebellion and/or make rebellion more likely).

    There might even be an option to grant full domestic self government (i.e. Canada/Australia), but I'm not sure how to do this in such a way as to not make this the default action all the time.

    Structures would have additional bonus effects. E.g. a school/university might have a chance of giving a technology to the owner if that technology is widely known among other civs (which would be a nice catch-up effect). Maybe the chance would be based on the proportion of cities with that improvement.

    There would be a maximum military size computed (likely based on population), which if exceeded would prevent new military units from being recruited. This would prevent the 'stockpiling' of a massive army. Having a conscription policy would increase the limit, as would a reservist policy, but these might have some other disadvantage.

    Recruitment of certain units would be region restricted, and many units will require special structures in the city (or maybe in a nearby city!) such as a factory or steel mill. Perhaps the city must have a certain number of specialists.

    Each turn, players would influence events in the world. For example, they could make rebellion more likely in some city/region or make an independent country produce extra troops (to check the invasion of another imperial power).

    There could be a domestic politics element, so each player has to maintain the support of their power base at home (which would limit their foreign policy options).

    1 year turns (maybe 6 month turns) so that the game progresses to completion in a reasonable time. I really want this, but it might make war favour the attacker too much, and make blockading essentially impossible (with the increased ship movement rate). I'm not sure how to deal with this.

    Would people be interested in playing something like this? Does anyone have any other ideas? This isn't an immediate project (I'm already involved in a few), but I think it would be interesting to discuss.
     
  2. CurtSibling

    CurtSibling ENEMY ACE™ SLeague Staff Supporter

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    Is this Exile's original Imperialism, or my humble attempt at a sequel?
     
  3. JPetroski

    JPetroski Chieftain

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    I think it would be extremely interesting to take some classics like Imperialism (either version) and add the power of lua. I would quite happily take part in any playtest.
     
  4. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Chieftain

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    I was figuring on using yours, since it is already in Test of Time. However, if enough changes are made to the rules, it might make sense to take the map and rebuild from the ground up.
     
  5. JPetroski

    JPetroski Chieftain

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    I like these 4 ideas very much, especially number 3. I think it would give players a lot to do, and readers something to chew on during these games rather than everything being pretty peaceful until one large war.
     
  6. JPetroski

    JPetroski Chieftain

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    This is an interesting idea. If I am following you, you'd make these improvements non-destroyable, non-disbandable, and non-buildable and they'd simply be in areas with historically large population density (but in game terms the cities might actually start very small)? Perhaps you could take advantage of the extra terrain types available with ToTPP to have them start surrounded by "undeveloped" terrain that doesn't provide a large food increase, and requires significant investment via engineering time to transform into "developed"?
     
  7. JPetroski

    JPetroski Chieftain

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    Not to keep flooding the thread but another thing you might consider is revamping how trade and resources work. Currently of course it's all done with trade units which is all well and good but it might be interesting to also have certain regions spawn special resource units that are meant to be brought back to the motherland and 'activated' in the capital to fuel a tremendous cash (or science, or production) reward. This might make certain regions more valuable than others and certain sea lanes especially important to defend, because this trade would need to make it back home. So perhaps there would be spices in the far east, diamonds in Africa, and eventually oil in certain areas too. Perhaps the research of certain technologies would be required for a civ to have any real use of these units/for these units to spawn for them.

    For example, perhaps Britain would own Mosul but until refining is researched they would not get oil supply units. Once it is researched, these units would spawn (perhaps with a certain improvement having been built) and it would then be up to the British to bring that oil back to London, press 'k' and reap a considerable cash reward.

    This would hopefully drive more proxy wars as players vied for control of particularly rich areas. Given that the current scenario version doesn't use 127 units there is plenty of space and even just picking 5-7 special resources could dramatically alter strategy, trade, sea lanes, and make the game more interesting from beginning to end.
     
  8. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Chieftain

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    Yes, that is the idea. Rather than have a special terrain type, I was figuring on having fertile terrain provide 0 food by default. So the farmers might be supporting themselves, but they aren't sending any food to the city to feed the tradespeople or factory workers. Only after they improve their farming methods enough to provide a surplus does the city grow.

    I was thinking of a 'food imports' terrain (and maybe a food export terrain also) so certain places could have extra food without farming it locally. Perhaps a blockade could change the terrain to something else.

    I'm happy to have the thread flooded with ideas, and I would really like an alternate concept of trade. The Civ II trade mechanic has a 'problem' in that the delivery bonus increases with distance. It should be that goods are transported long distances because they are valuable, rather than becoming valuable because they were transported long distances. The Falkland Islands Trade Hub is a result of mixing cause and effect in this case. This idea seems like a good one.
     
  9. JPetroski

    JPetroski Chieftain

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    Another thing with trade that might work is having some of these resources also able to be "activated" on the same square as a "trade hub" unit. This trade hub unit could be the only unit in the game that can be bribed, but it would be automatically respawned if destroyed. Certain regions like India or China might have more "available" trade hubs than others, and powers could vie for a monopoly by sending diplomats to establish new trade companies. Wars might start to defend the trade hubs.

    This would facilitate two-way trade. Perhaps India exports spices but craves finished goods that could only be built in Europe or the Americas.

    This would also make trade within an empire make more sense. Another "problem" with the base mechanism is that foreign trade is worth more simply because it is foreign rather than because you truly need what they have to offer.

    Perhaps there could even be a way to eatablish a "treaty" with other players where a barbarian or independent trade hub could exist in your lands but only certain civs that are part of the treaty could "crash" into it with the trade unit and derive a benefit... Other civs not part of the treaty could just lose the unit.
     
  10. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

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    Please focus on the naval aspects of such a scenario as you did it with aircraft in OtR. I was allowed to help in the most popular Civ 3 Scenario Age of Imperialism; 1895-1924, Deluxe Version and I can assure you: Civers love the ships of that time.

    1. Use the chance of creating a working merchant navy in that scenario.

    Let supply shipments be produced in colonial cities and brought to money, if they are reaching harbour cities of their motherland and supply shipments coming from the motherland can be transformed in a better unit in the colonial cities.

    Let the wealth of the motherland civs depend on the constant flow of supplyshipments and not on the constant cash from established trade routes.
    May be, create some special freighters (and tankers) by lua events, send them to coastal cities of their motherland and when they arrive there, they are disbanded, the imperial civ receives an amount of money and a new freighter targeted to the colonial coastal city is created by an event. When this ship arrives in the colonial coastal city, a better weaponed landunit is created, if the city is still in the property of the imperial civ, that sent out that freighter.

    2. Give at least predreadnoughts and dreadnoughts the abilitiy to fire on other ships

    - and if possible give this ability to AI ships, too.

    - may be give modern ships (like dreadnoughts) the possibilty of automatic firing back when
    beeing under fire.

    3. Give submarines the ability to fire (torpedoe) on other ships - and only on ships -, too.

    4. In the civ 3 scenario Age of Imperialism it showed to be a good decision, to start the scenario in 1895 to reach conflicts between the imperial civs more early in the game.

    5. Some additional personal preferences:

    - Please build the scenario for human player vs. AI and not as a multiplayer game. It´s more easy to add the multiplayer function to a game than to transform a multiplayer scenario to a human vs. AI game.

    - For my taste, the current Civ 2 ToT Imperialism 2 scenario is overcrowded by too many cities inside the land masses, causing too much micromanagement in the later stages of the game.
     
  11. JPetroski

    JPetroski Chieftain

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    It's an interesting thought moving the timeline up to 1895. The game does drag a bit. Of course, with lua, the opposite approach is also possible - you could start even earlier and have the scenario be a true race for dominance rather than a "hope Britain doesn't attack us just yet" that it starts off as (at least single player). The British Empire looked quite a bit different in 1822 and it would be possible, really, for any civs to carve out a large empire. Lua would allow things like the U.S. Civil War to be done (The U.S. tribe could have certain cities taken from them and given to the independents or even barbarians if certain conditions were met).

    If you are after a short-paced scenario that rapidly hurls towards a major world war, then Civinator's suggestion makes a lot more sense of course.

     

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