Impossible is possible

[Colonel]

Has anyone noticed with this game that a pikeman can win against a calvary unit is it just me or would that be impossible i mean a pikeman is basically a guy with a big spear~pike thing and a calvary has a rifle which can shoot long distance


Also a galley (the ship not the kitchen lol) sometimes can take out a galleon i dont think some flaming arrows could take out a huge ship with cannons

also ironclads those get some damage from galleons firgates etc. and yet a real ironclad was practicaluly indesturctiable to all wooden ships.

There are most likely more examples of what i have pointed out but my question is how int the hell is that possible

 

[Masquerouge]

Has anyone noticed with this game that a pikeman can win against a calvary unit is it just me or would that be impossible i mean a pikeman is basically a guy with a big spear~pike thing and a calvary has a rifle which can shoot long distance


Also a galley (the ship not the kitchen lol) sometimes can take out a galleon i dont think some flaming arrows could take out a huge ship with cannons

also ironclads those get some damage from galleons firgates etc. and yet a real ironclad was practicaluly indesturctiable to all wooden ships.

There are most likely more examples of what i have pointed out but my question is how int the hell is that possible

Because it is a game.

Has anyone noticed with this game that a pikeman can win against a calvary unit

No, I don't think the 30,000+ members of this forum, who have been playing Civ3 for, what, 3 years now, have ever noticed that...

More seriously, Because CIV3 is based on a random number generator for combats, anything even with the slightest odd WILL happen at some point.
Plus, the fact that low level units can defeat high end ones is a design of the game, so that backward civs can still have their go in the world affairs ; would you play CIV3 if there was NO CHANCE at all that your low-level units could defeat the AI's ones, who has a 3 tech lead on you ?

 

[necrosmith]

Actually, I'm wondering if there is some way to manipulate the RNG in order to achieve *more* consistent results.

I know the odds of a spearman taking out a tank are pretty long, but is there a way to make the odds even longer? Say, by doubling all the attack-defense values or something?

 

[kb2tvl]

Actually, I'm wondering if there is some way to manipulate the RNG in order to achieve *more* consistent results.

I know the odds of a spearman taking out a tank are pretty long, but is there a way to make the odds even longer? Say, by doubling all the attack-defense values or something?

Exactly. A warrior attacking a warrior with no defensive bonsus give a 50% chance of success. A spearman at 2 defense and say with 100% bonsus has a defense of 4. A tank attacks at 12. The chance of failure is 25%( 4/16).

To increase the attack advantage, double the attack numbers. A swordman would now have a 6 attack and 2 defense. This would take chance of loss from 2/5 to 2/8 for attacking a spear with a sword.

 

[LOVE_Magiska]

pikeman is basically a guy with a big spear~pike thing and a calvary has a rifle which can shoot long distance

Yes, the rifles cavalry use are very long-distance and accurate
And remember, pikemen were specially trained for taking down mounted units, that's what the long pikes are for.

Also a galley (the ship not the kitchen lol) sometimes can take out a galleon i dont think some flaming arrows could take out a huge ship with cannons

Maybe they boarded it? Maybe a powder magazine aboard the galleon exploded? Maybe a radioactive monkey came from the heavens and sat on the captains head?
That's what the RNG is for, these small random events and accidents that happen from time to time.

 

[sabo]

Has anyone noticed with this game that a pikeman can win against a calvary unit is it just me or would that be impossible i mean a pikeman is basically a guy with a big spear~pike thing and a calvary has a rifle which can shoot long distance

Actually pikemen were mostly invented/created in history to defend against cavalry. They dug in and pointed their long pikes at charging cavalry, it worked like a charm.

 

[SesnOfWthr]

Also, did I read somewhere here on CFC that pikes get an inherent defense vs. mounted units, because that was their primary role? Or was I just imagining it?

I will say that the whole sea battle thing does seem a bit unbalanced, but I also don't use many ships, so I could be imagining that too.

 

[mrtn]

Actually, I'm wondering if there is some way to manipulate the RNG in order to achieve *more* consistent results.

I know the odds of a spearman taking out a tank are pretty long, but is there a way to make the odds even longer? Say, by doubling all the attack-defense values or something?

Actually kb2tvl is wrong, doubling the values changes nothing. A cavalry (attack 6) attacking a pikeman (def 3, if we disregard terrain bonuses, 10% on grassland) has a chance to win that's about 2/3. A 12 attack on a def 6 unit also has a 2/3 chance. The important word here is fractions.

 

[Pook]

Also, did I read somewhere here on CFC that pikes get an inherent defense vs. mounted units, because that was their primary role? Or was I just imagining it?
I will say that the whole sea battle thing does seem a bit unbalanced, but I also don't use many ships, so I could be imagining that too.

Pikes had doubled defense against cavalry in Civ II. I don't believe that's true in any variant of Civ III, although I'd like it return. The doubled defense reflected the fact that horses are not dumb enough to charge into a wall of pikes- humans may be, but not horses. As a related example, in the entire history of the Napoleonic Wars, I'm only aware of one case of an infantry "square" (using their muskets with bayonets as a double row of pikes) being broken by cavalry, and that square hadn't fully formed when the cavalry hit.
Regarding naval warfare, I agree that the ironclad should be virtually unstoppable against any wooden ship. However, they were also notoriously unstable- very little freeboard and a low metacentric height. USS Monitor sank in relatively calm seas off the coast of Cape Hatteras. Perhaps we could reflect that in the game by some combination of the following-
a) no ironclads can venture into sea or ocean tiles
b) higher maintenance cost to reflect the occasional lost individual ironclad
c) chance of an entire ironclad squadron sinking (i.e. losing a unit) even in a coastal square.

 

[SesnOfWthr]

Actually kb2tvl is wrong, doubling the values changes nothing. A cavalry (attack 6) attacking a pikeman (def 3, if we disregard terrain bonuses, 10% on grassland) has a chance to win that's about 2/3. A 12 attack on a def 6 unit also has a 2/3 chance. The important word here is fractions.

A minor point, but:

Necrosmith was wrong, doubling both values doesn't help, but kb2tvl was right. He said to ONLY double the attack values in his example.

 

[Tomoyo]

You could double all the HP values. That works.

 

[BassDude726]

Originally Posted by Colonel:

Also a galley (the ship not the kitchen lol) sometimes can take out a galleon i dont think some flaming arrows could take out a huge ship with cannons

If anyone recalls, in 2000 a couple guys in a little rubber boat with a bomb took out an American destroyer in the Persian Gulf. I'd say it's possible for a galley to kill a gelleon.

 

[Dr Jimbo]

Don't forget modifiers. A fortified pikeman in a size 7 city on a hill defending across a river has effective defense of 6, makingn it 50:50 vs Cavalry.

Check out one of the calculators

 

[bingen]

This is a classic debate. Usually it is spearman vs. tanks instead though.

IMO cavalry are borderline overpowerd and will easily steamroll a civilization defende only by pikemen, so what if you lose a couple.

 

[Padma]

If it helps any, you can think of the "unreal" results as being due to various unforseen factors. Remember, the units are not individuals, they represent appropriate-sized groups of that type of unit. And the timescale - the *SHORTEST* turn in the standard game is one year. Maybe those tankers were bivouaced in what they *thought* was controlled territory, and the spearmen sneaked in and killed them while they slept, for instance.

 

[Colonel]

Originally Posted by Colonel:

Also a galley (the ship not the kitchen lol) sometimes can take out a galleon i dont think some flaming arrows could take out a huge ship with cannons

If anyone recalls, in 2000 a couple guys in a little rubber boat with a bomb took out an American destroyer in the Persian Gulf. I'd say it's possible for a galley to kill a gelleon.

ok i dont think that really happened as we didnt lose a destroyer in 2000 anyways

i think i will go with Padma and Dr. Jimbo's explanation to this

but i still think that a galley could not take out a galleon

 

[Padma]

The USS Cole is a Destroyer. It was knocked completely out of action for over a year (IIRC). Yes, it was repaired, but it *was* reduced to perhaps one HP left....

 

[Colonel]

lol one hp yes of course but it wasnt destoied

just fortify it and it will repair lol

 

[Tomoyo]

Actually ships only heal in Harbors.

EDIT: I meant cities.

EDIT2: I meant harbor cities.

 

[anarres]

Actually ships only heal in Harbors.

EDIT: I meant cities.

No, you really did mean Harbours.

A very annoying "feature" that - fortify your injured ship in a non-harbour city and watch it not heal at all.