Improve the Protective trait???
- Thread starter kniteowl
- Start date
Good point. I can't understand why the MG is classified as a siege weapon, other than that they couldn't fit it in any other category.
Siege weapons are 100% offensive, the MG is 100% defensive. Go figure.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=197612
had a nice idea, though it could not simply be added (as i said there).
but either 50% fortify, OR general 15% defense bonus in borders might work out if you skip one of the auto-promos.
Something else: does the game differ between being aggressor or defender in a state of war?
If so, one could add a miniature golden age when war is declared on you.
10 turns of increased unit production maybe, like a temporary war academy in every city?
had a nice idea, though it could not simply be added (as i said there).
but either 50% fortify, OR general 15% defense bonus in borders might work out if you skip one of the auto-promos.
Something else: does the game differ between being aggressor or defender in a state of war?
If so, one could add a miniature golden age when war is declared on you.
10 turns of increased unit production maybe, like a temporary war academy in every city?
HardCoder
Arrrr
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2006
- Messages
- 171
Yeah - I can start units with at least 6 promotions later in the game.
Marines w/ 3 free gunpowder promotions (combat, drill, city), a couple from west point, instructors, civics, whatever, and then of course amphibious. Or armor, or mech inf, or whatever. Plus that's the only way you can get a drill promotion for gunpowder units except for whatever older units you promote.
I think protective is just fine.
aelf
Ashen One
Sorry, joined this thread late. Civ4 is a war game? That says it all. Is it a major marketing failure or a major design failure?
I think Protective just needs better cheap buildings. Maybe in addition to walls and castles.
I think Protective just needs better cheap buildings. Maybe in addition to walls and castles.
jkp1187
Unindicted Co-Conspirator
Basically, how about giving protective a special unit such that, whenever I use it, I automatically win the game?
Maybe they can have half priced market or grocer.
How about half priced Jails to decrease War weariness during Defensive Wars. Although you could use the Jails for offensive Wars too.
But I'm not sure if extra half priced buildings are enough to effectively improve the Protective trait.
How about allowing Protective Gunpowder units have the ability to have Drill Promotions. If Protective gunpowder units can have Drill Promotions beyond Drill1 it would make more sense.
This means Protective gunpowder units can promote to Drill 2,3 & 4
What Does everyone else think?
How about Protective gets +1 extra happiness from Walls + Castles? It can be done, as can be seen with Charismatic and Momuments/Broadcast Towers.
My rationale is that your citizens can see that you're investing in their defence, and are reassured by it. Might be powerful with Churchill, but Health provides a balancing factor, and the happiness bonus would expire with Gunpowder/Economics, or whatever techs obsolete Walls/Castles...
A nice, if not overpowering, early game bonus, that would work best on Higher difficulty levels.
My rationale is that your citizens can see that you're investing in their defence, and are reassured by it. Might be powerful with Churchill, but Health provides a balancing factor, and the happiness bonus would expire with Gunpowder/Economics, or whatever techs obsolete Walls/Castles...
A nice, if not overpowering, early game bonus, that would work best on Higher difficulty levels.
gunkulator
Emperor
Good point. I can't understand why the MG is classified as a siege weapon, other than that they couldn't fit it in any other category.
Siege weapons are 100% offensive, the MG is 100% defensive. Go figure.
Well, the obvious choice for MGs is a gunpowder unit, however infantry would then be too powerful against it. I think siege was selected because no units get a bonus against siege until Artillery comes along. CG promoted MGs in cities and Drill promoted MGs out in the field are usually selected to defend and are tough to take out (until Artillery and Marines).
gunkulator
Emperor
True but you can upgrade Grenadiers to MGs. You typically don't need all that many city garrison MGs.
Lars_Domus
Say No 2 Net Validations
Protective is a decent trait as it is! ...It's just not particularly great for protecting (unless applying the old saying that offence is the best defence) 
If it needs to be modified in any way, it's to rename it to something more appropriate - and then make up a brand new trait to call Protective. For such a trait, the idea of a combat bonus for battles fought within your borders sounds like a decent idea. As it is, I'm quite happy with free drill for crossbowmen and gunpowder units. I consider the free CG more of a symbolic freebie.
If it needs to be modified in any way, it's to rename it to something more appropriate - and then make up a brand new trait to call Protective. For such a trait, the idea of a combat bonus for battles fought within your borders sounds like a decent idea. As it is, I'm quite happy with free drill for crossbowmen and gunpowder units. I consider the free CG more of a symbolic freebie.
aelf
Ashen One
How about making Protective castles produce 1 wealth each, which will never be obsoleted?
Silver Marmot
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2005
- Messages
- 239
I definitely think it needs improvement. The AI never attacks my cities unless they have a huge force that I don't stand a chance of beating (even if I have protective). I'm sure it's better against human players, but there are rarely any situations where having the protective trait would make any difference against the AI.
Hm... i like that.
Cheaper draft as defender, no
or less population loss.That is, ofc, available without nationhood (if you are being attacked).
If nationhood is active, twice the number may be drafted.
Another possibility would be the ability to draft defensive units only if nationhood is not active, with nationhood you get to choose.
Pinstar
Ringtailed Regent
Ideas to improve protective trait:
-All units produced start with city defender 1, even if they cannot normally earn it. Archery units still get their drill 1 promotion in addition.
-Units earn more exp, only when defending.
-Protective cities get an additional 10% defense bonus. This stacks with normal culture defenses, as well as wall/castle bonuses. Even cities with no culture or walls will still have a 10% defense bonus.
-Reducing the defense of a protective city takes longer than normal, this extra resistance is added to the one provided by walls and castles.
-Protective civs can research the Archery tech at half cost.
-A protective city that is being bombarded by enemy artillery may draft a single unit, even if nationalism isn't your current civic. This "free draft" still carries happiness penalities, and may only be done once every 10 turns by cities under attack.
-Workers and Settlers become a strength 1 unit that cannot attack. This so they might have a slim chance to survive an animal attack in the early game.
-Protective civs suffer 0 war wearniess when fighting a defensive war, no matter how long it lasts or how many units are lost.
-Protective cities can be raized, but only after the resistance has been crushed. If the protective civ can take the city back before it stops resisting, the city remains in tact.
-In order to pillage a tile within a protective civ's border, a unit must have ALL of its movement points unspent as well as its action. Units that have more than 1 movement will not be able to move and pillage in the same turn.
Obviously I'm not suggesting ALL of these be given to the protective trait, but maybe a few might beef it up a bit.
-All units produced start with city defender 1, even if they cannot normally earn it. Archery units still get their drill 1 promotion in addition.
-Units earn more exp, only when defending.
-Protective cities get an additional 10% defense bonus. This stacks with normal culture defenses, as well as wall/castle bonuses. Even cities with no culture or walls will still have a 10% defense bonus.
-Reducing the defense of a protective city takes longer than normal, this extra resistance is added to the one provided by walls and castles.
-Protective civs can research the Archery tech at half cost.
-A protective city that is being bombarded by enemy artillery may draft a single unit, even if nationalism isn't your current civic. This "free draft" still carries happiness penalities, and may only be done once every 10 turns by cities under attack.
-Workers and Settlers become a strength 1 unit that cannot attack. This so they might have a slim chance to survive an animal attack in the early game.
-Protective civs suffer 0 war wearniess when fighting a defensive war, no matter how long it lasts or how many units are lost.
-Protective cities can be raized, but only after the resistance has been crushed. If the protective civ can take the city back before it stops resisting, the city remains in tact.
-In order to pillage a tile within a protective civ's border, a unit must have ALL of its movement points unspent as well as its action. Units that have more than 1 movement will not be able to move and pillage in the same turn.
Obviously I'm not suggesting ALL of these be given to the protective trait, but maybe a few might beef it up a bit.
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