In Memory of the Caregivers

Berzerker

Berzerker

Deity
Joined
Dec 30, 2000
Messages
21,785
Location
the golf course
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...0a2203f6c8d_story.html?utm_term=.5b15bf34c13d

I thought of becoming a veterinarian but growing up with pets who inevitably met their demise I figured I couldn't handle it. I had 2 great Uncles serve as medics/ambulance drivers in WWI - both survived the war but one apparently committed suicide by mental ward guard. I dont know the particulars but he had an episode and went for his gun, maybe to kill himself.

Thats a lot of pressure... And guilt. Even 'perfect' doctors are subject to a horrible remorse at losing patients. Respect.
 
I can relate to how you feel about this.

But I think the word is Caregivers, not Caretakers.

Caretakers do the sweeping up in schools.

And then there's Undertakers.

edit: Oh, I see. North American English. Of course.

Anyway, it's not Caregivers either, even in "proper" English English. But Healthcare professionals, or something like that.

Caregivers are also known as Carers, and typically take care of old people for nothing, or minimum wage.

Don't mind me. Carry on.
 
:lol: doh! Caregivers... I might have gotten it confused with undertakers.

Moderator Action: I renamed the thread for you. --LM
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Okay, I know I'm going to be called a heartless jerk for this, but I have to call this particular excerpt from the article out:

Humans make mistakes. Yet when doctors make mistakes, they’re publicly shamed in court, on TV and in newspapers (that live online forever). Many continue to suffer the agony of harming someone else — unintentionally — for the rest of our lives.
Click to expand...

Yeah, they should be shamed. A lot of medical malpractice results in severe disabilities, injuries, or disfigurement and may even lead to an untimely death. If you ruin someone's life, even unintentionally, it only seems fair that you have your life ruined as well. You don't just get to harm someone that severely, say "my bad" and move on with your life.

Look, I get what the article is saying, humans make mistakes and nobody's perfect. I agree with that. The problem with applying that thinking to doctors though is that they are in a profession where lives are on the line, which means mistakes are absolutely unacceptable.
 
Commodore said:
The problem with applying that thinking to doctors though is that they are in a profession where lives are on the line, which means mistakes are absolutely unacceptable.
Click to expand...

And that's why doctors experience a lot of pressure and have a high suicide rate.

I sympathize with them, while acknowledging they have responsibility for others' lives.

I very much doubt I could handle that level of responsibility.

I think if I'd ever had children (that was never going to happen anyway), the sense of responsibility would have just been overwhelming to me.
 
To be honest, I don't understand why ANYBODY would want to be a doctor, especially one who has to do operations on patients. From the outside, it seems to be the most underappreciated, high-stress job imaginable, and the only things that really seem to stick with you emotionally are the mistakes you make, and the tragedies that you could not prevent, no matter how much you try to emotionally detach yourself from your job.
 
Being a doctor is probably too much pressure for a human to handle. That's why we should really be working towards getting something like those medical droids in Star Wars or that medical pod thing in Prometheus.
 
It is an ungrateful job.
You are typically not judged on actions where you did something extraordinary good that really saved somebodies life, but judged on actions where you made a mistake.
So you need the character of a goalkeeper at football/soccer (judged on his mistakes) instead of an attacker (judged at his one in so many chances extraordinary goals)
Good risk awareness, low risk appetite, solid.

As far as I know new students for medicine do not get an assessment on their psychological profile, detecting such a profile....
This does not acknowlegde the practical situation they get in.
if you are qualified by your school figures and have the money, you get your education, and the bulk is caught (pay back your debts) in that one kind of job.

BTW
Students for medicine also learn very little about health (in my country for example about 40 hours on healthy nutrients and food habits).
I understand this is the same in most countries.
Meaning that doctors are a kind of last resort, when your genes, your ageing or your personal health behaviour screw you up.
So... how far can we go with demanding a perfect execution of their job ?
 
I think you mean a "thankless task", but yeah. I guess it is.

Though plenty of people do express their gratitude, I think a lot goes unexpressed. I mean, just how are you supposed to thank someone for saving your life?
 
Valessa said:
To be honest, I don't understand why ANYBODY would want to be a doctor, especially one who has to do operations on patients. From the outside, it seems to be the most underappreciated, high-stress job imaginable, and the only things that really seem to stick with you emotionally are the mistakes you make, and the tragedies that you could not prevent, no matter how much you try to emotionally detach yourself from your job.
Click to expand...

Lots of money, prestige and fawning women is probably a big incentive.
 
Lest we forget, the protector of the Ocampa and dragger of starships.
caretaker_0441.jpg
 
Commodore said:
Okay, I know I'm going to be called a heartless jerk for this, but I have to call this particular excerpt from the article out:



Yeah, they should be shamed. A lot of medical malpractice results in severe disabilities, injuries, or disfigurement and may even lead to an untimely death. If you ruin someone's life, even unintentionally, it only seems fair that you have your life ruined as well. You don't just get to harm someone that severely, say "my bad" and move on with your life.

Look, I get what the article is saying, humans make mistakes and nobody's perfect. I agree with that. The problem with applying that thinking to doctors though is that they are in a profession where lives are on the line, which means mistakes are absolutely unacceptable.
Click to expand...
Do they really get shamed though? I feel like medical malpractice and accidents (like the number 2 cause of deaths in the US) is a serious issue that isn't tackled because most people defer blindly to doctors and overlook mistakes.
 
Commodore said:
Okay, I know I'm going to be called a heartless jerk for this, but I have to call this particular excerpt from the article out:



Yeah, they should be shamed. A lot of medical malpractice results in severe disabilities, injuries, or disfigurement and may even lead to an untimely death. If you ruin someone's life, even unintentionally, it only seems fair that you have your life ruined as well. You don't just get to harm someone that severely, say "my bad" and move on with your life.

Look, I get what the article is saying, humans make mistakes and nobody's perfect. I agree with that. The problem with applying that thinking to doctors though is that they are in a profession where lives are on the line, which means mistakes are absolutely unacceptable.
Click to expand...
Medicine is hard, you must repeatedly make difficult decision with serious consequences with incomplete information in real time. If you are in the medical profession no matter how good you are you will make mistakes that will hurt people. There is no getting around it and no robot is going to come out of the sky to prevent mistakes from occurring.

If doctors are threatened with life-ruining events because they made a mistake, that will not improve their chances of not making mistakes. Instead it will lead to everyone trying to cover their asses and things being swept under the rug. On the other hand, if you acknowledge the reality of the position, and the fact that even the most competent professionals will make mistakes, then you can actually institute a system where mistakes are recorded, learned from, talked about, and reduced.

Forcing doctors to pretend that they're not human isn't doing anyone any favors.
 
Last edited:
Perfection said:
Forcing doctors to pretend that they're not human isn't doing anyone any favors.
Click to expand...

It's not about forcing doctors to pretend they're not human, it's about them realizing and accepting the consequences of the mistakes they make. Although I'm sure most doctors out there do realize and accept that, clearly the author of the article in the OP does not. The author of the article seems to be crying "look at these poor doctors who get ruined by lawsuits" while completely ignoring the fact that someone's life gets ruined, ended, or made more difficult by every mistake a doctor makes. Why should that go unpunished? If I make a mistake driving my car and kill a pedestrian crossing the road, I would end up in jail and likely have to pay some type of financial restitution to the family of the victim. It doesn't matter that I didn't intend to kill that person or that I made the mistake I made because I was tired from being overworked at my job. All that matters in the eyes of the law is that I made a mistake that ended someone's life and I should have to pay for that mistake. And I agree with the law on that.

Perfection said:
If doctors are threatened with life-ruining events because they made a mistake, that will not improve their chances of not making mistakes.
Click to expand...

There still has to be restitution for the victims though. And if someone has their life ruined by a medical mistake, they should be compensated accordingly and that compensation should come from the doctor that made the mistake. It's not so much about reducing the amount of mistakes they make (that's not the job of the courts) as it is about ensuring the victims of those mistakes get what's owed to them.

Perfection said:
On the other hand, if you acknowledge the reality of the position, and the fact that even the most competent professionals will make mistakes, then you can actually institute a system where mistakes are recorded, learned from, talked about, and reduced.
Click to expand...

Most people do acknowledge that though. Trouble is, telling the victim or the victim's family "we'll make sure we do better next time" isn't going to be much consolation. Someone's life is still ruined. So go ahead and have your system as you describe, but also ensure doctors that make mistakes due to malpractice or negligence are nailed to the wall for it.

One interesting thing the article in the OP did bring up though is there is no psychological screening for entrance into medical school. Perhaps there should be. Maybe that would cut down on the number of doctors who can't handle the mental stress their chosen profession demands.
 
Don't you also have to balance the chances of a doctor making a mistake, and "ruining someone's life", against the consequences of doing nothing for them?

If you make a doctor suffer for the mistakes he makes, isn't he more likely to simply avoid the risk of making any?

And thereby avoid an opportunity for doing some good because he fears being prosecuted?

I'm not sure this is going to be always in the patient's best interests.
 
No matter how experienced or good a doctor is, when they have to work 16 hour shifts their patients suffer.

I read somewhere there is a national cap on the numbers of doctors in the US. Is this true?
 
When I was a nurse, I had to do rotations through ER. Most of those ER doctors worked 30 hour shifts. They'd have a nap here and there, but it used to be pretty normal. Some provinces have put a cap on shifts now to limit them to 12 - 16 hours, but still that's too long. No wonder mistakes are made.
 
Lemon Merchant said:
When I was a nurse, I had to do rotations through ER. Most of those ER doctors worked 30 hour shifts. They'd have a nap here and there, but it used to be pretty normal. Some provinces have put a cap on shifts now to limit them to 12 - 16 hours, but still that's too long. No wonder mistakes are made.
Click to expand...

How many more staff, percentual, would be needed to stay away of the behaviour ?
(if not abuse)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom