Incorrect Einstein quote: Change the facts.

[AntSou]

The best part is, there has never been such a bug, it is a myth; some time ago somewhere on those forums explained this and dug out how the misconception that there was such a bug was born out of some joke around a decade ago

I had to go search for that.

Civilization Creator Shoots Down Our Memories Of A Nuke-Happy Gandhi

It’s common knowledge that you don’t mess with Gandhi in Civilization. Despite the real Indian revolutionary’s dedication to peaceful resistance, his video game counterpart’s proclivity for threatening the player with nuclear weapons is infamous. A popular theory states that this was caused by a...

kotaku.com

So the bug isn't real

However, Meier also says:
"It’s also true that Gandhi would frequently threaten the player, because one of his primary traits was to avoid war, and deterrence through mutually assured destruction was an effective way to go about that.”

"Furthermore, the Indian civilization’s dedication to pursuing scientific development meant that it was often able to build nuclear weapons much sooner than other civilizations, putting them in play as a defensive measure in a way that might have felt super fast to players only coming to grips with, say, gunpowder." (paraphrase)

What I get from it was that Nuclear Gandhi was essentially real, at least in the pursuit (if not use) of nuclear weapons, and then the players came up with a completely made up theory.

Tbf this makes it even more interesting

 

[fy00sh]

However, Meier also says:
"It’s also true that Gandhi would frequently threaten the player, because one of his primary traits was to avoid war, and deterrence through mutually assured destruction was an effective way to go about that.”

"Furthermore, the Indian civilization’s dedication to pursuing scientific development meant that it was often able to build nuclear weapons much sooner than other civilizations, putting them in play as a defensive measure in a way that might have felt super fast to players only coming to grips with, say, gunpowder." (paraphrase)

i think this makes gandhi's in game quote make more sense - "there is no shame in deterrence; having a weapon is very different from actually using it" (or something like that). i'd always thought that was just an attempt at reconciling a portrayal of gandhi with a portrayal of nuclear gandhi, but it seems thats always how nuclear gandhi was. that actually makes me think more positively of that quote i think - it does a great job of referencing something notable from the civ series's history
unlike all the misattributed and completely unrelated tech/civic/wonder quotes in the game. tbh i wouldnt mind if all the quotes were jokey and frivolous, if they were at least of a consistent tone, and properly attributed

 

[pokiehl]

i think this makes gandhi's in game quote make more sense - "there is no shame in deterrence; having a weapon is very different from actually using it" (or something like that). i'd always thought that was just an attempt at reconciling a portrayal of gandhi with a portrayal of nuclear gandhi, but it seems thats always how nuclear gandhi was. that actually makes me think more positively of that quote i think - it does a great job of referencing something notable from the civ series's history

It's not solely a self-reference, I think. Gandhi notably said: "If we had the atom bomb, we would have used it against the British."

unlike all the misattributed and completely unrelated tech/civic/wonder quotes in the game. tbh i wouldnt mind if all the quotes were jokey and frivolous, if they were at least of a consistent tone, and properly attributed

I really disagree here. I think the silly tone of the writing in this game went way too far, from the quotes all the way down to the civilopedia. If the game can't take itself seriously, it makes it that much harder for me to take it seriously myself. The flippant tone of writing in the game will also not age well, I think. Much of it already reads like a script writer for a TV show trying to capture "millennial humor."

I am not saying humor doesn't have a place in the series. There are a lot of humorous things in other civ games, like some of the diplomacy lines in Civ 5. For some reason, those don't bother me as much...I guess because they come off as generalized silly humor, rather than the smug or snark of Civ 6.

 

[Andrew Johnson [FXS]]

The Civilopedia had a bit of a rewrite around NFP, though Sean Bean related things couldn't change. I think it's much improved (I'm biased, though).

 

[Disgustipated]

I actually like some of the funny quotes. I don't want this game to be serious and boring. I like the Mark Twain quotes. But Courtney Cox? Come on, she's a b list celebrity. I don't like any of the "modern" quotes.

People really want this game to be too serious. Remember, this is a game that had Elvis as an entertainer.

 

[Uberfrog]

I actually like some of the funny quotes. I don't want this game to be serious and boring. I like the Mark Twain quotes. But Courtney Cox? Come on, she's a b list celebrity. I don't like any of the "modern" quotes.

People really want this game to be too serious. Remember, this is a game that had Elvis as an entertainer.

Some of the most memorable quotes in Civ 4 were for Railroad and Satellites with Leonard Nimoy saying “beep beep beep” or quoting the Rock Island Line.

But quotes that are just straight up wrong don’t really work as jokes.

 

[Zaarin]

I actually like some of the funny quotes. I don't want this game to be serious and boring. I like the Mark Twain quotes. But Courtney Cox? Come on, she's a b list celebrity. I don't like any of the "modern" quotes.

People really want this game to be too serious. Remember, this is a game that had Elvis as an entertainer.

Civ5 definitely took itself way too seriously, but I think you can find a better balance between serious and humorous quotes than Civ6 did--Civ4 managed it. Civ6's sense of humor feels sophomoric at any rate; humor can at least be clever. But as others have said, misattribution of quotes, made up quotes, and quoting B-list celebrities and life bloggers isn't even funny. Not to mention so many of Civ6's quotes that are neither serious nor funny but just baffling--"Sure, jets are fast and economical, but oh my, what fun we've lost!"

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

Not to mention so many of Civ6's quotes that are neither serious nor funny but just baffling--"Sure, jets are fast and economical, but oh my, what fun we've lost!"

There’s also the Archery quote taking a line from a Henry Wadsworth Longfellow poem, which I dislike. The arrow in the poem is almost certainly metaphorical. Using it for Archery just diminishes the meaning of the work it was based on.

It’s one of many quotes which feel like Firaxis did a Google search of “[tech/civic/wonder name] + quotes” and then randomly picking one… from the third page of results.

I do love the Shipbuilding quote from the Titanic captain though

 

[Naeshar]

I for once like the incorrect quotes. Yes, they became a bit ingrained by repetition, however everyone who knows the quote recognizes the difference. There is no reason to correct them. In fact, this is too much of cancel culture for me.
The game is six years old, there is no reason to change it now because you discovered today there is something incorrect.

 

[reddishrecue]

Gandhi's repetitive quote "Theres no shame in deterrence.." is sort of like Trajan's quote that asks you to expand more which I dont remember atm because I havent played with Trajan lately. I think they are repetitive but when you overexpand more and show Trajan you have more cities and land, he should stop. As for Gandhi Im not sure what would make him stop..

 

[AntSou]

I for once like the incorrect quotes. Yes, they became a bit ingrained by repetition, however everyone who knows the quote recognizes the difference. There is no reason to correct them. In fact, this is too much of cancel culture for me.
The game is six years old, there is no reason to change it now because you discovered today there is something incorrect.

You can't just attach the loaded term "cancel culture" to things and expect it to serve as an argument.

there is no reason to change it now because you discovered today there is something incorrect.

Today?

Of course they're not going to change the quotes. Nobody is expecting them to. People are discussing what they think about the quotes.

 

[Zaarin]

In fact, this is too much of cancel culture for me.

"If people have different priorities than I do, they're clearly trying to cancel me."--St. Francis of Assisi

 

[pokiehl]

I for once like the incorrect quotes. Yes, they became a bit ingrained by repetition, however everyone who knows the quote recognizes the difference. There is no reason to correct them. In fact, this is too much of cancel culture for me.

I’m really confused by your rationale. The quotation attributions are presented as actual fact. Their notability (and thus, their apparent worthiness for inclusion in the game) is entirely predicated on their veracity. It absolutely does matter that anything purporting to be true is actually correct. I have no idea how “some people already know the real quotes” can possibly justify the errors.

Would you feel the same if the game presented, say, America with a Sphinx unique improvement? Based on your logic above, everyone who knows about sphinxes understands they’re actually Egyptian, so this inaccuracy wouldn’t matter, right?

I’m not even going to touch the “cancel culture” remark, which is even more confusing and seems wholly unrelated to this topic.

The game is six years old, there is no reason to change it now because you discovered today there is something incorrect.

Well first, as others have said, we’re not clamoring for Firaxis to fix this and re-hire Sean Bean to voice a new quote. We know that’s not going to happen and we’re simply discussing it. It’s an important discussion to have, especially if the developers pay attention to these forums as they work on Civ 7. Fan feedback can help them improve that game.

Moreover, I am unfortunately also confused by the logic of “the game is old, so a fix isn’t necessary.” So any bugs that remain shouldn’t be fixed because *checks notes* the game is 6 years old? The game shouldn’t get any more improvements or updates either?

 

[Naeshar]

I’m really confused by your rationale. The quotation attributions are presented as actual fact. Their notability (and thus, their apparent worthiness for inclusion in the game) is entirely predicated on their veracity. It absolutely does matter that anything purporting to be true is actually correct. I have no idea how “some people already know the real quotes” can possibly justify the errors.

Would you feel the same if the game presented, say, America with a Sphinx unique improvement? Based on your logic above, everyone who knows about sphinxes understands they’re actually Egyptian, so this inaccuracy wouldn’t matter, right?

I’m not even going to touch the “cancel culture” remark, which is even more confusing and seems wholly unrelated to this topic.


Well first, as others have said, we’re not clamoring for Firaxis to fix this and re-hire Sean Bean to voice a new quote. We know that’s not going to happen and we’re simply discussing it. It’s an important discussion to have, especially if the developers pay attention to these forums as they work on Civ 7. Fan feedback can help them improve that game.

Moreover, I am unfortunately also confused by the logic of “the game is old, so a fix isn’t necessary.” So any bugs that remain shouldn’t be fixed because *checks notes* the game is 6 years old? The game shouldn’t get any more improvements or updates either?

Well the player joined the forums, did not worry with searching for discussions about the quotes (which there were when the game released), posted a new topic announcing they are "offended" and proceeded to demand correction at once, then never again reacting. If this is not trying to cancel existing game content, I dont know what is... Definitely not ideal behaviour.

I know sphinxes are Egyptian (and no, I wouldnt mind anybody building sphinxes in ancient era), you know Einstein didnt say "change the facts" and these two examples are not equal. Civ6 leaned away from historicity of earlier games and added inaccurate quotes which are not true, but might be true in another history, are part of the entertainment. They are not there for learning, but as someone mentioned above, as memes.
You are misinterpreting my logic.The game is say 6 years old, fixes are welcome, but this is not a fix. As developers intended, narrated quotes provide a break from clicking and a bit of entertainment. More so, if you notice errors. You wouldnt ruin a well-told joke by pointing out facts and wouldnt argue why philosoraptor is asking in english in a meme.

Feedback is good, however this is old feedback, and pointless at this moment.

 

[Zaarin]

Civ6 leaned away from historicity of earlier games and added inaccurate quotes which are not true

The rose-colored glasses through which some people see the earlier games in the franchise never ceases to amaze me.