Indonesian "Continents" Question.

[Wabango]

Hey all, just a quick question about Indonesia and their UA "Spice Islanders".

Spice Islanders (Indonesia): The first 3 cities founded on continents other than where Indonesia started each provide 2 unique Luxury Resources (and can never be razed).

Taken from Well of Souls.

The wording for me is critical on this because I prefer to play games using Gedemon's TSL. Now, I was curious if anyone had caught what this means in terms of game-play. My main questions are as follows:

• Are "continents" and "islands" (any non-attached piece of land) used interchangeably?
• If 3 separate cities are founded on the same "continent" will they all gain the unique Luxury Resources?
• - Or can they be mixed and matched (2 cities on one continent while 1 city on another separate continent, 3 cities on 3 separate continents, et cetera).

 

[PDMX]

This is also something that strikes me, when I think about this civ. What about Pangea? Will this civ be useless on that kind of map?

At first I thought about the city distance restriction, which already disappears, when you settle on tiny offshore Islands. Maybe we will have the same mechanic here, that the bonus will apply as soon as you settle on a not connected landmass.

 

[God of Kings]

Try the Conquistador test.

If the Conquistador can settle, then it means that it is on a different continent.

 

[joncnunn]

It's probably using the same logic that the current achievement for the vanilla North African civ is using.
Which as I recall its just ensuring its not in the same region as your capital in addition to being a different landmass.

So it will be fairly easy to use Indonesia on both Archepello and large islands, but tiny islands would be the best map type for founding the fewest cities and still getting all the bonus resources.
As to pangaea, you're out of luck.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Without a doubt when they consider "continents" they mean landmass that does not share any tiles with the landmass that capital is founded upon, which pretty much means any islands major continents not sharing land with the "old world" (from your capital).

 

[Shadow717]

I can answer the first question at least. Yes in Civ's game mechanics, Island & continent are the same thing. The Conquistadors ability proves this. So even a 1 tile island should count as a second continent for this UA.

As for the other questions, the recent QA reads a little different from what you have quoted, and seeing as how it is the most recent source its the one I would use. In the new QA thread it makes it very clear that to get the luxury resource the city must be on a continent (island) that no other Indonesia city has been founded on.

However this leads to the question, does Indonesia need 4 cities/continents/Island or 3? It is unclear whether or not the capital will start with one of these resources.

 

[kingchris20]

Hey all, just a quick question about Indonesia and their UA "Spice Islanders".



Taken from Well of Souls.

The wording for me is critical on this because I prefer to play games using Gedemon's TSL. Now, I was curious if anyone had caught what this means in terms of game-play. My main questions are as follows:

• Are "continents" and "islands" (any non-attached piece of land) used interchangeably?
• If 3 separate cities are founded on the same "continent" will they all gain the unique Luxury Resources?
• - Or can they be mixed and matched (2 cities on one continent while 1 city on another separate continent, 3 cities on 3 separate continents, et cetera).

Continents and islands are almost certainly used interchangeabley

but as for the number of continents/cities on other continents

Spice Islanders (Indonesia): The first 3 cities founded on continents other than where Indonesia started each provide 2 unique Luxury Resources (and can never be razed).

Could you elaborate on Indonesia's ability?

The first three times Indonesia founds a city on a brand new continent(where it hasn’t yet founded a city) it gets two copies of a special resource: Nutmeg, Cloves, or Pepper. This resource cannot be razed or destroyed. Indonesia has the option to trade any of these resources it wishes.

I really feel like with these 2 comments about the UA, that you must found your capital, and then take settlers to a new landmass (continent or island) found a 2nd city. This will get you your 1st bonus luxury resource.

From here is where people are differing on opinions. Some say, you can continue to found cities on the landmass where you found your 2nd city to get the other two bonus luxuries.

I think that you must take your 3rd city to a completely new landmass that doesn't contain your 1st or 2nd city to get the 2nd bonus luxury, and then you must take your 4th to an entirely new landmass once again, that doesn't contain your 1st, 2nd, or 3rd cities to get the last bonus luxury.

Of course when I use terms like 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th, I don't mean literal.....as it doesn't matter in what order you found cities.......I mean you could found 8 cities on the original landmass and then found your 9th on a separate landmass to get that 1st bonus luxury. Im just pointing out that I think each of these "Bonus-Luxury" producing cities must be on 3 separate landmasses away from you founded landmass.

 

[Wabango]

Try the Conquistador test.

If the Conquistador can settle, then it means that it is on a different continent.

I was foolish not to think of this, excellent idea. I think with this and other replies, it can be put to rest about what defines a "continent". All that remains now is how you acquire the LRs and in what of the many possible manners I already brought up.

 

[Louis XXIV]

The Q&A says three different continents, the original description said continents other than your capital so, putting them together, you need four continents/islands.

 

[EgyptRaider]

I can answer the first question at least. Yes in Civ's game mechanics, Island & continent are the same thing. The Conquistadors ability proves this. So even a 1 tile island should count as a second continent for this UA.

As for the other questions, the recent QA reads a little different from what you have quoted, and seeing as how it is the most recent source its the one I would use. In the new QA thread it makes it very clear that to get the luxury resource the city must be on a continent (island) that no other Indonesia city has been founded on.

However this leads to the question, does Indonesia need 4 cities/continents/Island or 3? It is unclear whether or not the capital will start with one of these resources.

According to the description of Well of Souls the Capital doesn't count.. So you'll need 4 different continents to get a copy of every resource.

 

[Wabango]

The Q&A says three different continents, the original description said continents other than your capital so, putting them together, you need four continents/islands.

Would you mind linking the source, just for my own curiousity.

 

[Buccaneer]

I would say this is from an unimpeachable source, so why the confusion on landmass?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12538868&postcount=78

As with every 'off continent' mechanic, even a 1 tile island counts - hence why you can settle a 1 tile island 2 tiles from another city. If it's directly on the same landmass, it's the same 'continent'.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Would you mind linking the source, just for my own curiousity.

Dualshockers preview that says the cities have to build on continents other than your capital.

Here is the Q&A that says they have to build on continents different from each other.

 

[JokerJace]

Does anyone else find it easier if they would use propositional calculus to describe such UA instead of ambivalent common language?

 

[PhilBowles]

Hey all, just a quick question about Indonesia and their UA "Spice Islanders".



Taken from Well of Souls.

The wording for me is critical on this because I prefer to play games using Gedemon's TSL. Now, I was curious if anyone had caught what this means in terms of game-play. My main questions are as follows:

• Are "continents" and "islands" (any non-attached piece of land) used interchangeably?

• 
  
  The game doesn't make any distinction between types of landmass (the names of maps are for the benefit of the player. The code is told to make either large or small landmasses, but any one of them is a 'continent' from the game's perspective).
  
  

  [*]If 3 separate cities are founded on the same "continent" will they all gain the unique Luxury Resources?

  
  No. The new Q&A uses less ambiguous wording: "The first three times you found a city on a continent (where you don't already have a city)". Since the second city on the second continent isn't founding a city on a new continent for the first time, you don't get any bonus.
  
  The new wording does however introduce an additional source of ambiguity: the starting continent does not have a city when you start the game, so should get the bonus. From the "What We Know" thread, this is explicitly ruled out by the UA, but this apparent inconsistency does raise the question of whether the UA wording we have is correct, or whether it's been changed, since it appears significant that the Q&A answer made no mention at all of the starting continent restriction we think exists.

 

[Glassmage]

Hey all, just a quick question about Indonesia and their UA "Spice Islanders".
Taken from Well of Souls.

The wording for me is critical on this because I prefer to play games using Gedemon's TSL.

Gedemon Giant Map TSL has plenty of islands in southeast asia for this UA so it's not such a big deal. In that area the only people you have to deal with are maybe Siam and Polynesia in the early game, then later Japan, China, and Persia sometimes go to southeast asia and Australia to settle. India and Korea like to stay in their starting positions.

 

[Mudrac]

I have been playing a game with Songhai, it was Fractal map. I was a war with Atilla and when I conquered his 2 cites (Capital and one more). At the last moment, he built a new one on a nearby island (that guaranteed his survival) although it was more a continent since it was relatively big, but smaller than the landmass we were on. I captured the city with my Caravel and got the achievement "War Canoe Attack" (Capture a city on a different continent as Askia). So I reckon that anything that isn't connected with other landmass counts as a "continent" even a 1 tile island.