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Information Era Tech Tree Changes

Discussion in 'General Balance' started by Stalker0, Nov 3, 2019.

  1. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    We did a (I would consider very successful) shake up of the Ancient Era tree recently. And I would like to take a look at the last tree in Information. Now granted this tree doesn't see all that much use, but I think it could use a pass.

    Now its fair to say I am looking at this from a standard speed point of view, so I would love some Epic Speed players to pipe in on this one.

    First, my thoughts:

    1) In general I would argue that the top half of the tech tree is much stronger than the bottom half. Telecommunications is key for CV players. Sydney Opera House is a wonderful wonder, and Satelites is of course good for SV players. And of course SV players want to move to Robotics to snag the Hubble Space Telescope.

    2) On the bottom half, I feel that the units are a bit too spread out for what amounts to the last turns of the game. If military is going to get a worthwhile bump, I think it needs to come into play quicker. Meanwhile, the Xcom squad is arguably the best military unit of the late game, but again is on the top shelf. While its the weakest in overall terms, it is tremendously mobile, and serves the purpose of pillaging key areas and entangling players you need to hold up while you try to win your own game.

    3) Our overall goal is to deliver the last surge of military power a bit quicker, while doing a little rebalancing on the top part of the tree.

    New Information Tech Tree
    1) Mobile Tactics and Advanced Ballistics are switched. Mobile Tactics gains Mobile Sam and Rocket Artillery (if needed you can remove the bonuses from the citadel and fort, which lets be honestly are 100% useless at this point in the game. If you really want to keep them, they can be moved to Lasers).

    --So what we are doing here is bringing a lot of the ground toys in one major package, giving you a chance to bring these weapons to bear in the last stage of the game.

    2) Advanced Ballistics: Giant Death Robot and Modern Armor are moved to this tech.

    --This is the most radical of my changes. With this, we are basically bringing the last real "special toys" to one tech, and bringing both Modern Armor and GDR earlier into the fight. No longer is the GDR a quirk you see for 2 turns before the game is over, its an actual unit.

    Note that since Advanced Ballistics is now at the bottom of the tree, it requires a dedication to military to pick up these "super weapons"...as opposed to just getting it on your way to CERN.

    3) Stealth: Gain the Jet Fighter

    --So similar to mobile tactics, we are packing our late game military units into tighter packages. Now all of your air and sea needs are in this one tech.

    4) Laser: Gain the Spaceship Factory

    --Hubble will be your capitals way to get the Spaceship factory for SV players, but it puts this late game building in a place where some of the other types can try to get a little use out of it, taking a small edge away from the top of the tech tree.


    So in summary:

    a) Our main military units are now condensed into 3 techs:
    Mobile Tactics: All of your core ground units (Rocket Artillery, Mobile SAM, Mobile Infantry, Helicopter)
    Advanced Ballistics: Your super weapons (Nuclear Missile, Modern Armor, GDR)
    Stealth: Your combined arms (aka air/sea) need (Jet Fighter, Stealth Bomber, Missile Cruiser)

    b) Spaceship Factory is now lower in the tech tree, and opens up this building to lower tech tree playstyles (leaving Hubble as the SV players main way to get their factory).
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
    Kim Dong Un and saamohod like this.
  2. ridjack

    ridjack King

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    I fully approve of all this, and also would suggest doing something with the X-Com Squad. It strikes me as immensely silly to have units in the last column of techs at all, and similarly silly to have one unit line get two upgrades so close together.

    Speaking of silly... can we find a new name for the GDR if we're shifting these things around?
     
    Kim Dong Un likes this.
  3. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    I'll give this one poke to see if there is any interest
     
  4. Coffee Monopoly

    Coffee Monopoly Warlord

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    I've never even gotten to the Information age. Pretty hard to get any kind of data or experience on it.
     
  5. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Modern armor and GDR coming out on the same tech seems strange. I get that they use different strategics, but one can be upgraded into the other at any time. Why not move GDR to lasers instead?
    Spoiler for reference :

    You never mentioned if you would move special forces or XCOMs

    Here's a proposal that goes a little further than yours:
    Advanced ballistics: Mobile SAM, Rocket Artillery, Helicopter, Nuclear missile
    Mobile Tactics: Mechanized Infantry, Modern Armor, Special Forces
    Stealth: Stealth Bomber, Jet Fighter
    Lasers: Missile Cruiser, GDR
    Nuclear Fusion: XCOMs
    Satelites: bomb shelter

    Moves XCOMs to the bottom. condenses most the of the fighting power into the bottom 5 techs of the tree. Leaves nuclear subs up top so they have something. Submarines are also unlocked on a different top tech (refredgeration), so i prefer that continuity.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2019
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  6. Moi Magnus

    Moi Magnus Emperor

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    I like it, except for Nuclear Fusion, that now has nothing at all related to nuclear power. At least GDR used to consume uranium.

    In fact, now that I'm looking at this tree, some parts make no sense at all. Robotics give you access to Hubble but doesn't require satellites? Building Giant Death Robots doesn't require Robotic? I know I'm spotting problems without suggesting solutions, but this part of the tech tree feel much less polished than the remaining of the tree.
     
  7. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    It actually makes LESS sense that a unit that requires uranium would come at fusion. The whole point of fusion technology is that it would Not use fissile materials

    Could add a new powerplant at fusion:

    Fusion reactor
    Does everything a Nuclear reactor does but 2x the :c5production:production cost and no strategics
    unlocks a full era later as well, obviously.

    Note: this is a silly suggestion. I'm not actually serious.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
    Moi Magnus likes this.
  8. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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  9. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    iiiiiinteresting. I do like the moving of Sydney Opera House. I found that whoever built Sydney had a nigh lock on Hubble, as it gives you the policies needed to build the wonder. Combining of all the power plants together does make sense thematically. The bazooka may come a bit too late, its already basically an anti-tank unit, as its stats are a minor upgrade from the Machine Gun.

    I also like the Battleship move, puts it more in the naval side of the tree. Xcom and GDR are in interesting places. It actually makes the Xcom more of the end game offensive unit (which lets be honest it is), and puts GDR in the hands of the science nerd civs that build the ultimate death machine to swat the bees and hold the line. So it makes the GDR more of a defensive unit, which I think is an interesting niche for it.

    One key thing I want to check, did computers actually lose its TR, or is that just for lack of space on the tech?
     
  10. Rekk

    Rekk Emperor

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    Seeing end-game future tech units at the same tier as jet fighters, stealth bombers and nuclear subs just makes me sad that we have so little time to play with military at this stage, that we're squashing current history military with future tech.
     
  11. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    that’s just the rub unfortunately. Not enough space in the tech tree.
     
  12. bigcat88

    bigcat88 King

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    Idea: add 4 techs in column before robotics/internet/... you can make Information Era great as it is!
     
  13. Moi Magnus

    Moi Magnus Emperor

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    That would mean increasing delays to postpone diplomatic and cultural victory even more, otherwise technological victory will become much more difficult. Peoples already complains they are artificially delayed to be in competition with the technological victory, so I'm not sure it's a good idea.
     
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