1889
Mayor of H-Marker Lake
You've been drinking since Monday? OK, that must have been some turn set. 
Innovian Succesion Game #3
- Thread starter 1889
- Start date
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
All right, here we go...
Here is the save
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/49374/Willem_Van_Oranje_BC-1000.CivBeyondSwordSave
MAP 1000 BC
First of all, I decided to do some basic exploration and to make sure we got the techs uncovering the key strategic resources, as well as getting the techs close to utilizing the ivory and marble resources for wonders. I also made sure we got three cities, one with a heavy amount of luxury resources, the other with horses and cows.
The tech-lines researched was the following
Mining-Masonry-Bronze Working- Iron Working
Animal Husbandry- Writing and 1 turn away from Pottery
I also picked up Wheels, Archery and Agriculture to utilize our tiles
Right now, I think we should research Mathematics, Alphabet, Aesthetics, Calendar and Literature and then make a dash for Music in order to seize some key territories with a cultural bomb as well as build as many Ivory/Marble Wonders as we can.
Resources:
We already developed horses, and may well get bronze in a short while. We also got access to Ivory for elephants. It is worse with Iron, which suggests we should take it easy with city charges for a while until we built strength.
Archers, spears and a strong cavalry (elephants, chariots and horse archers will keep us safe for a long while). We also got a great access to numerous luxuries, especially in Haag.
We managed to meet some interesting civilizations this game, all of them are of course ranked after us. I got a bad event, the cows pastured outside our capital died, so I had to work it again with the worker.
Ragnar of the Vikings
These are straight to the north, about 10 tiles or so, and happens to be the second strongest nation in the game so far.
These got berserkers, which is a strong medieval infantry UU
Isabella of Spain
These are straight to the west, about 15 tiles or so, and happens to be the third strongest nation in the game so far.
These got conquistadors, which is a strong medieval cavalry UU
Charlemagne of HRE
These are close to us, Vienna is bordering our rich Hague.
These got Landsknechte, a superstrong medieval infantry UU
Ghandi of India
These are far to NE, a little bit west of HRE's NW border.
These got fast workers, which suggest they will expand fast.
Napoleon of France
These are straight east of us, on the other side of the bay, but the HRE are stuck in between in the end of the bay, at Vienna.
These got musketeers, a late renaissance infantry UU, and not a threat yet.
Here is the save
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/49374/Willem_Van_Oranje_BC-1000.CivBeyondSwordSave
MAP 1000 BC
First of all, I decided to do some basic exploration and to make sure we got the techs uncovering the key strategic resources, as well as getting the techs close to utilizing the ivory and marble resources for wonders. I also made sure we got three cities, one with a heavy amount of luxury resources, the other with horses and cows.
The tech-lines researched was the following
Mining-Masonry-Bronze Working- Iron Working
Animal Husbandry- Writing and 1 turn away from Pottery
I also picked up Wheels, Archery and Agriculture to utilize our tiles
Right now, I think we should research Mathematics, Alphabet, Aesthetics, Calendar and Literature and then make a dash for Music in order to seize some key territories with a cultural bomb as well as build as many Ivory/Marble Wonders as we can.
Resources:
We already developed horses, and may well get bronze in a short while. We also got access to Ivory for elephants. It is worse with Iron, which suggests we should take it easy with city charges for a while until we built strength.
Archers, spears and a strong cavalry (elephants, chariots and horse archers will keep us safe for a long while). We also got a great access to numerous luxuries, especially in Haag.
We managed to meet some interesting civilizations this game, all of them are of course ranked after us. I got a bad event, the cows pastured outside our capital died, so I had to work it again with the worker.
Ragnar of the Vikings
These are straight to the north, about 10 tiles or so, and happens to be the second strongest nation in the game so far.
These got berserkers, which is a strong medieval infantry UU
Isabella of Spain
These are straight to the west, about 15 tiles or so, and happens to be the third strongest nation in the game so far.
These got conquistadors, which is a strong medieval cavalry UU
Charlemagne of HRE
These are close to us, Vienna is bordering our rich Hague.
These got Landsknechte, a superstrong medieval infantry UU
Ghandi of India
These are far to NE, a little bit west of HRE's NW border.
These got fast workers, which suggest they will expand fast.
Napoleon of France
These are straight east of us, on the other side of the bay, but the HRE are stuck in between in the end of the bay, at Vienna.
These got musketeers, a late renaissance infantry UU, and not a threat yet.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
yes good call. Good luck 
Some thoughts:
Research, I'd like to go for Alphabet next so we can trade some techs with our opponents.
We seem to be a bit low on workers, but there are 2 in production, so when they're ready, the issue should be gone. I'm thinking of adopting Slavery and whipping the workers and settlers to get them earlier.
The Amsterdam worker should build the last road segment to the Hague, that will give it access to health resources, so the unhealtiness is (partially) solved.
The Settler from Rotterdam should probably settle S-SW of the iron, it gets iron and cows in the BFC.
I'll try to scout the big black area W of the Hague. If we can settle there too, Ragnar will be blocked.
I'll try to play it later today or tomorrow.
Research, I'd like to go for Alphabet next so we can trade some techs with our opponents.
We seem to be a bit low on workers, but there are 2 in production, so when they're ready, the issue should be gone. I'm thinking of adopting Slavery and whipping the workers and settlers to get them earlier.
The Amsterdam worker should build the last road segment to the Hague, that will give it access to health resources, so the unhealtiness is (partially) solved.
The Settler from Rotterdam should probably settle S-SW of the iron, it gets iron and cows in the BFC.
I'll try to scout the big black area W of the Hague. If we can settle there too, Ragnar will be blocked.
I'll try to play it later today or tomorrow.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
I think the suggested research path makes sense, even though mathematics may come in handy before Alphabet, as we can chop trees faster to make the river bonuses count as they should with our finance trait (as 1889 mentioned).
But alphabet ahead of mathematics makes sense if we want to save the forests for chopping up a few marble/ivory based wonders quickly.
I agree mostly to the remainder of the suggested strategies, which sound good and fair.
The reason I built a few troops and so on, was to make sure the barbarians coming at us would be fought back, as there is a good number of barbs out there. But you are right, the workers are key in making this nation win ahead.
But alphabet ahead of mathematics makes sense if we want to save the forests for chopping up a few marble/ivory based wonders quickly.
I agree mostly to the remainder of the suggested strategies, which sound good and fair.
The reason I built a few troops and so on, was to make sure the barbarians coming at us would be fought back, as there is a good number of barbs out there. But you are right, the workers are key in making this nation win ahead.
1889
Mayor of H-Marker Lake
We look pretty spread out. I've heard that the AI may attack weakly defended cities even early in the game and I don't know what sort of behavior to expext from Charlemange.
I think that we should build another worker after the settler then two more beyond that for a total of 6. My sugestion is to settle in the desert between copper and cattle. Without a coastal city I don't feel very Dutch.
Also how about focusing all our espionage on the HRE. That way we can see his demographic info in about 5 turns.
Will open borders with them increase the chance of Buddhism spreading to us? It will at least make for better relations when it comes time for tech trading.
Alphabet next I think, but something to think about for later is the free artist with music. Lots of good uses for them.
I think that we should build another worker after the settler then two more beyond that for a total of 6. My sugestion is to settle in the desert between copper and cattle. Without a coastal city I don't feel very Dutch.
Also how about focusing all our espionage on the HRE. That way we can see his demographic info in about 5 turns.
Will open borders with them increase the chance of Buddhism spreading to us? It will at least make for better relations when it comes time for tech trading.
Alphabet next I think, but something to think about for later is the free artist with music. Lots of good uses for them.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
Yeah, I agree, we should go for techs activating marble/ivory wonders, then decide on the wonder, and head straight for music, and blow the culture bomb where it counts the most.
Amsterdam: The library has been destroyed by an event. It can either continue to build chariots for defence, and barracks and swords/axes for offence OR it could build the Pyramids. We have 17 tiles to chop in the BFC alone, so we should be able to get most of it with chops alone.
Utrecht: At happiness cap, so I'm using it to pump out workers/settlers for now.
The Hague: Has one worker chop jungles 24/7. After the riverside tile, the dye tiles should be chopped & cottaged. Whip away any surplus pop in the form of chariots, or use them as scientists.
Rotterdam: There's a worker getting a road up there, the road should go to the iron first, to mine that, and then to the cows. It might be a good idea to build some culture here first. So a monument and a library.
Nijmegen: unhealty as a place can be. But it should be better when the road completes. Probably build a granary next to get some more health. Mining and hooking up the gems is priority too.
Maastricht: Granary and library next. Improve and work the cows and the wheat. Run 2 scientists here too and it should generate our first Great Person.
I've marked two possible sites in the west, it might be good to settle them.
I think Napoleon should be our first target. He has settled an annoying city on our coast, we should be able to capture it easily when we have 4-5 swords/axes.
Research:
1. Economic path: Math - Currency - (Trade for Poly/Med/Priest) - Code of Laws
2. Wonder Path: Math - Aesthetics - Literature - Music
Opponents:
Ragnar, has monarchy, writing and horsebackriding, number one in score, jewish. We have blocked him in the south, I would advise to keep some troops in Rotterdam for when he gets upset about that.
Isabella, two cities only, seems rather backwards but second in score (not counting ourselves)
Charlemagne, has 5 cities and seems to be doing rather well. He has established a nice empire to our east. I'd like to pick him as our first real victim, but he's protective, has copper, and his closest city is on a hill.
Gandhi, small empire, blocked by Charlemagne. Has Jewish Holy city. Probably a good trading partner.
Napoleon, small, underdevelopped and he has a city on our border. I suggest taking down that city first. That will probably cripple him for now, and the rest of his empire is further away.
Utrecht: At happiness cap, so I'm using it to pump out workers/settlers for now.
The Hague: Has one worker chop jungles 24/7. After the riverside tile, the dye tiles should be chopped & cottaged. Whip away any surplus pop in the form of chariots, or use them as scientists.
Rotterdam: There's a worker getting a road up there, the road should go to the iron first, to mine that, and then to the cows. It might be a good idea to build some culture here first. So a monument and a library.
Nijmegen: unhealty as a place can be. But it should be better when the road completes. Probably build a granary next to get some more health. Mining and hooking up the gems is priority too.
Maastricht: Granary and library next. Improve and work the cows and the wheat. Run 2 scientists here too and it should generate our first Great Person.
I've marked two possible sites in the west, it might be good to settle them.
I think Napoleon should be our first target. He has settled an annoying city on our coast, we should be able to capture it easily when we have 4-5 swords/axes.
Research:
1. Economic path: Math - Currency - (Trade for Poly/Med/Priest) - Code of Laws
2. Wonder Path: Math - Aesthetics - Literature - Music
Opponents:
Ragnar, has monarchy, writing and horsebackriding, number one in score, jewish. We have blocked him in the south, I would advise to keep some troops in Rotterdam for when he gets upset about that.
Isabella, two cities only, seems rather backwards but second in score (not counting ourselves)
Charlemagne, has 5 cities and seems to be doing rather well. He has established a nice empire to our east. I'd like to pick him as our first real victim, but he's protective, has copper, and his closest city is on a hill.
Gandhi, small empire, blocked by Charlemagne. Has Jewish Holy city. Probably a good trading partner.
Napoleon, small, underdevelopped and he has a city on our border. I suggest taking down that city first. That will probably cripple him for now, and the rest of his empire is further away.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
1889, you are up, unless a third party would like to play this one.
I would personally wager for a marble based wonder or Ivory based wonder, since that is the resources we got.
I would personally wager for a marble based wonder or Ivory based wonder, since that is the resources we got.
Which good Ivory/Marble wonders are there? The Great Library is definetly good, but the others are kinda meh.
1889
Mayor of H-Marker Lake
Well I'll be playing a set soon. I'll only be researching Math so we can decide which wonder to build later.
Right now we still look a little stretched out so I'm going to get some more workers out, connect our cities and resources and grow our cities.
I like the idea of getting one more city on the other ocean, but we can wait a bit on further expansion since science is already at 50%.
Right now we still look a little stretched out so I'm going to get some more workers out, connect our cities and resources and grow our cities.
I like the idea of getting one more city on the other ocean, but we can wait a bit on further expansion since science is already at 50%.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
Zeus is clearly a powerful wonder. The war weariness it incurs on enemies may be critical till we get our Dutchmen out. We need a wonder that gives us security and buys us time throughout some dangerous medieval times, given neighbors UU.
1889
Mayor of H-Marker Lake
To begin I traded Archery to Spain for Mysticism
450: Open Border with Ragnar
425: made a sandwich
400: Maastricht starts Granary
375: Amsterdam starts Library, trade writing to Gandhi for sailing and to Spain for Meditation.
350: started a spy in The Hague, we probably don't need it but it looks like fun. Rotterdam starts Library.
325: Hinduism spreads to Utrecht just in time to start a monastery and choose a state religion to keep the growing population happy.
300: finish sandwich, start glass of milk.
275: Ragnar finishes Oracle and evidently chooses math as his free tech. A barb city is located between us and Spain. Gandhi sends a Jewish missionary to Rotterdam.
250: Isabella demands Alphabet, so I set her strait on how this game is going to work out for her. She's not ready to accept the truth yet and grows angry.
225: finish glass of milk, start bag of chips.
200: Finish Math starts Calendar. We look far enough ahead to go back and get Aesthetics and those wonders I think. Calendar also allows Mausoleum if we want. Hinduism spreads to Amsterdam.
175: Amsterdam finishes Library and starts Monastery.
Sorry folks, to much lunch eating and not enough concentrating. I hooked up cows instead of Iron in Rotterdam. I used the open borders to explore rival lands but didn't send anyone into France. Gandhi has two more missionaries heading our way so we should switch to Judaism soon to avoid upsetting Ragnar. We need more troops but until we grow they'll cost us, a couple more barracks would be handy until then though.
450: Open Border with Ragnar
425: made a sandwich
400: Maastricht starts Granary
375: Amsterdam starts Library, trade writing to Gandhi for sailing and to Spain for Meditation.
350: started a spy in The Hague, we probably don't need it but it looks like fun. Rotterdam starts Library.
325: Hinduism spreads to Utrecht just in time to start a monastery and choose a state religion to keep the growing population happy.
300: finish sandwich, start glass of milk.
275: Ragnar finishes Oracle and evidently chooses math as his free tech. A barb city is located between us and Spain. Gandhi sends a Jewish missionary to Rotterdam.
250: Isabella demands Alphabet, so I set her strait on how this game is going to work out for her. She's not ready to accept the truth yet and grows angry.
225: finish glass of milk, start bag of chips.
200: Finish Math starts Calendar. We look far enough ahead to go back and get Aesthetics and those wonders I think. Calendar also allows Mausoleum if we want. Hinduism spreads to Amsterdam.
175: Amsterdam finishes Library and starts Monastery.
Sorry folks, to much lunch eating and not enough concentrating. I hooked up cows instead of Iron in Rotterdam. I used the open borders to explore rival lands but didn't send anyone into France. Gandhi has two more missionaries heading our way so we should switch to Judaism soon to avoid upsetting Ragnar. We need more troops but until we grow they'll cost us, a couple more barracks would be handy until then though.
I actually went to a McDonalds halfway through my last turnset, ate 2 hamburgers and some french fries and drank 0.5 liter of chocolat milkshake, and then went back to play the last of of it
On-Topic: I've found warmongering in BtS extremely difficult. I would suggest that we go easy on the warmongering and try to tech ahead of the opponents. They seem to be teching slower than in Vanilla/Warlords, so that should be possible. I think we should only try to wage war when we've got a technological advantage.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
I agree 100 % with Dutchfire, and this is why Statue of Zeus fits our strategy, as the war weariness it incurs on invaders is very valuable.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
I think we could do that to. Mausoleum and Taj Mahal goes very well with the Golden Age with finance trait. But this has to be timed with sufficient infrastructure. I say we go for Zeus, Taj Mahal and Mausoleum (we can handle them all thanks to chops and resources).
I think we need to put down another city in the north of Rotterdam, on the coast near the other cow there. We can also put another city north of Lyons, east of Rotterdam to block French/Holy Roman expansion and we should probably hurry to block Spains expansion while it's still small.
BTW. Provo, I think you're up.
BTW. Provo, I think you're up.
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