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Instead of corn or rice being a tile-specific bonus, what about farming?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Brawndo, Apr 25, 2012.

  1. Brawndo

    Brawndo Warlord

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    Perhaps this suggestion clashes too much with the fundamentals of the Civ series, but I think food resources need to be completely reworked. It never made sense to me why corn, for example, exists on one grassland tile but not another one right next to it. In the real world, once new crops are discovered they can be grown anywhere that the climate and soil permits.

    My proposal is that food resources can be farmed on any tile with suitable terrain. For example, wheat farms could only be created on flat plains or flood plains tiles. Grape vineyards could only be created on plains or grassland hills, and so on and so forth. If we really wanted to get complex, latitude could be incorporated to add climate as a factor, that way a grassland tile near the top of the map gives different crop yields than a grassland tile near the equator. Also, generic farms would be removed from the game completely - an empty tile can only be forged for its basic resources (like game and wild berries and nuts).

    Now you might argue that giving all players access to these resources removes the bonus of having them, but I also think this would make the game more fair. Players would then focus on building cities in good terrain near fresh water as opposed to rushing to found a city in an exact spot with the best fat X city radius. In the real world, things like fish and corn are ubiquitous. Wars should be fought over strategic resources (oil, iron, etc) and fertile land, and not over whose city radius covers the coveted +2F Banana tile.
     
  2. Namaspamus

    Namaspamus Warlord

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    Agreed. And this is also true for horses, cows, etc.. this is of course a whole new system to design, but it could be very interesting. A possibility would be to limit to one the number of, say corn farms by city. so you can't just put corn all around, you need to get other farming ressources from other civs. (like the introduction of horses from the old to the new world, corn in the opposite direction, etc...)

    This is the reason I would like such a system so much: we would have to trade these ressources in the early/middle game and this would be a very good incentive for active scouting and beelining to navigation.
     
  3. mintcandy

    mintcandy King

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    If I understand this correctly, you are saying that after discovering a prerequisite technology, food resource improvements like corn farms on grasslands would become available and could be spammed on any appropriate empty tile?

    If I'm right, how is that any different than existing technologies that make tile improvements more efficient like Fertilizer or Civil Service? I mean, those efficient tile improvements are already available to anyone who researches them, right?
     
  4. Banman

    Banman Prince

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    Would also be awesome if the whole population regulation dynamic was reworked in tandem with the OP's suggestion -- in real life cities grow large where food supply, terrain and infrastructure allow, not limited by arbitrary empire size factors etc. as in game.
     
  5. mintcandy

    mintcandy King

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    Addendum: Speaking only for myself, I never go to war for specific food tiles, and I'd be very surprised if there were a significant amount of people who do. Thus, I don't think food resources are quite as coveted as you claim they are.

    You are correct in another line of reasoning though: snatching up fertile land IS a reason to go to war. But what exactly is "fertile" land?

    I would daresay that "fertile" land is land that is capable of making a city become a productive one. One food resource tile isn't enough to make a city productive: I'm not going to war for the sole purpose of conquering a city entirely surrounded by forestless tundra, just because there happens to be ONE Deer resource in the city's sphere of influence. Now, if there were five or more Deer resources in forested tundra, that might get my attention...maybe.

    I would daresay that a group of food resource tiles are what MAKES a city's land fertile. Going out on a limb here, but I don't think that food resources are something that needs to be nerfed this much.
     
  6. Strategia

    Strategia Chieftain

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    Yes, this, so very much this. I'd love to see something like this implemented. Although I think it'd work best if :health: was brought back as a limiting factor in city size, and only one or a few worked food resource tiles provide :health:; that way, you COULD spam wheat all around a city, but it'll be choked with :yuck:, whereas if you provide a balanced diet to your people - say, wheat, bananas, cattle and deer - the city will grow much faster and stay healthy much longer.

    I don't think it'll be added to Civ V, unfortunately, though maybe for Civ VI. However, I strongly hope this can be modded into Civ V somehow.
     
  7. Brawndo

    Brawndo Warlord

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    Strategia is right; this would require the reimplementation of health in order to work properly. Otherwise, like mintcandy said, it wouldn't be significantly different from having advances that make generic farms more efficient. I sorely miss health as a game mechanic.
     
  8. Banman

    Banman Prince

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    Couldn't agree more!!
     
  9. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Keeper of Records

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    That's a great idea! I like the idea of corn spreading: both for realism and because it might introduce some intriguing new peacenik strategies. :)

    Why don't trees regrow in Civ V either? I remember in Civ IV they regrew at random, which was somewhat realistic at least.
     
  10. mintcandy

    mintcandy King

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    I was a bit miffed to find out that Civ IV took away the Worker ability to plant forests, so it's no surprise that forests are even more fragile in Civ V.

    Heck, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that a Forest hex is considered a luxury resource in Civ VI. :p :D
     
  11. TyBoy

    TyBoy Prince

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    Horses as a strategic resource, as though they are mined in limited quantities from special underground horse veins, has always seemed absurd to me.

    I think this is a really interesting idea. It might well be the way they are heading too given that they already made more common but less impressive bonus tiles in 5 compared to 4. It's way to dramatic a change to the tile yield/improvement/bonus system in existing civ games to be added to them, but it would be an interesting direction to head in for civ 6. It might also be the case that once you flesh this system out it turns out to be for a different game. For example, a more geography based bonus system would likely require a system for redistributing food between cities to really work well. I think that would be a good system to have, but it also might change the game enough that it would no longer be right for the civ series.

    You sort of hint at it, but I wonder if you would put some kind of seeding system in for this. For example any plains tile could house a wheat farm, but would you also require some kind of generic access to wheat? Or would you just assume that everyone has access to some kind of grain, whatever that may be?
     
  12. Ailedhoo

    Ailedhoo wonderer

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    I approve the OP's ideas. We could also use this to increase the amount of crops bought into the game, as well as giving furthur awards to explorers by returning with newly discovered food, allowing possible trade of the new discovery with other nations.
     
  13. Bechhold

    Bechhold King

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    I like the OP's idea, except the latitude etc, but I would go so far that certain say :c5food: yield would be lower than say pure resource tiles, like wheat, winery tiles.
     

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