Intergalactic War

[Warman17]

They do work on physical objects. They have two distinct forms of shielding - 'Ray Shields' which counter energy weapons - And "Particle Shields" which block physical objects. Just look at things like the Force fields that keep the atmosphere inside the open Hangers on Starships, the force fields that separated Obi-Wan from Darth Maul and Qui-Gon in Episode I, and those crazy water-shield things that the Gungans used to maintain air bubbles around their cities.

The forcefields allow the passage of dense objects though, like fighters, submarines, or droids. Those nuclear shells aren't going to be made out of gas you know.

 

[SG-17]

If you've ever watched a show you know that they can beam you from any point on the ship to any point in/out of the ship (given a range). The transporter room is there so when people transport in and out they have a feeling of an exit/enterennce room to say good-bye and be welcomed.

but it is slow, the asgard is less than a second. The asgard beaming is more precise, it can beam a person into, the cockpit of a 302

Also we don't know how the shields of SG work compared to that of ST, SG transporters may be ineffective against ST shields. (for example we know SW shields only work on energy weapons, they have no effect on physical objects, which begs the question: why use turbolasers when you can just blast nuclear shells at one another?)

you may not, but I do. They are bubbles that protect against energy weapons, solid matter, and in some cases beaming. There are two types the bubbles, and the surface shields.
The surface shields can protect against decompression if there is a hull breach, light energy weapons, and solid matter. And if SW shields only work on energy weapons then they might as well surrender, the weapons on the Daedalus class ships have solid matter weapons, like the rail guns, mark 8 missles and the mark 9 pod horizon.

 

[Bluemofia]

They do work on physical objects. They have two distinct forms of shielding - 'Ray Shields' which counter energy weapons - And "Particle Shields" which block physical objects.

Or is it the other way around? Because in Episode III, General Grevious activated ray shields and trapped Obi-wan, Anakin, and Palpatine.

 

[Yuri2356]

Or is it the other way around? Because in Episode III, General Grevious activated ray shields and trapped Obi-wan, Anakin, and Palpatine.

It may be that if there's enough power behind them, then passing though simply becomes a bad idea. It's just that one is optimized for beams, and the other for objects.

 

[Perfection]

How do you mean? Just that the general basis/overall theme of the show is what makes it what it is, rather than specific episodes which show off what the series can do?

In a nerd pwnfest, bad writing wins.

 

[Alan Bradely]

WARNING: Massive post regarding Star Gate dominance to be procured forthwith.

Until then, a short sound-bite: Species 8742 was deafeated by Voyager modification of Borg Nanobiotes which proved devestating to them. Replicator eating of the Borg would be followed by mass production of this weapon, neutralizing any threat by this species. [/Sound-bite]

Also, can some other gater cover the Human form replicators, replicator immunty to any energy attacks other than black holes, and Adria and the Priors? I'm busy covering other bases...

 

[taper]

In a war, having the best technology isn't as important as having the best tactics. Here's how the Stargate universe would attack.

First, the Asgard would visit all the major planets of either the SW or ST in a matter of minutes and drop off a time-dilation device. These babies slow down time by a factor of 10,000. By the time the enemy even realized what had happened, many years would have passed outside. Several centuries could go by before they find and deactivate the devices. We could also use these things to speed up our time, negating any production advantage ST/SW has.

Now we have a couple of options. We can turn their suns into black holes, blow up the stars, airdrop replicators, Aschen bioweapons, orbital bombardment, send an asteroid their way...

Dealing with space fleets, Federation ships have been shown to be destroyed by a collision with a smaller vessel at sublight speed, so even a modern nuke fired at them shouldn't have a problem. Rom, Klingon, Dominion, etc are similar. The Borg can have a nuke beamed into the middle of their ship, vaporizing it. Species 8742 was stopped in their tracks by nanobots, which several species in SG have used. Star Trek loses.

For SW, again, numbers don't matter if the Asgard can zip in, beam in nukes or beam out vital equipment, and be gone in less than a minute. I'd like to see a Jedi face a modern machine gun. Wouldn't stand a chance, especially in a crossfire. Even those flying bugs in Ep 2 killed dozens if not hundreds of Jedi. Planet killers are useless if they never reach their target. Star Wars loses.

All this doesn't even use Ancient technology. Even stuff that was destroyed could probably be rebuilt because the Ancient knowledge still exists. I've only seen up to Season 8, so the Ori aren't known to me, but they seem even more impressive.

 

[Alan Bradely]

Since most people here don’t seem to understand why Star Gate should be so scientifically advanced, I’ll try to clarify.

The history of the Ancients/Alterans/Ori begins, by most estimates, 75,000-100,000 years ago. They had already reached the level of your typical advanced species, e.g. Borg, Fed, Imperial, being adept with learning and wise. This is when they split into 2 philosophical groups, the Alterans (good), who believe in non-interference as they grow more technologically powerful, and the Ori (evil), who encourage religious fervour and the use of weaker races as sources of worship through technological dominance. This soon turns ugly, and the altruistic Alterans (who will now also be known as Ancients) decide to relocate to the Milky Way Galaxy, leaving each side to develop powerful galactic civilizations along differing view-points. The Alterans continue their advancement, creating alliances with other peaceful and advanced species (the Asgard, Nox and Furlings) to mutually develop, while the Ori rule their whole galaxy with cruel but effective religious fervour.
By now, they had learned the deepest laws of physics, and had started reaching not only the final theoretical knowledge, but the practical applications of it. This supreme effort, not only in science, but in ethics/morals, led to the culminating discovery possible by any race. They had evolved enough to perfect Ascension, or ‘moving on’ from this plane of existence to another which had complete control over this one. This is something the Star Trekkers have seem to only have found through the Q continuum, but it is clear that the Q have degraded from the amazing discovery of their predecessors to the level of powerful tricksters, lacking the moral purity (not used in a good vs. bad sense). Star wars races seem to have a genetic affinity for this plane of existence (excluding the Vong), being able to draw on a feeble connection to it, and even having ascended partway in death, occasionally (Pioneered by Qui-Gon). Still, it is evident that this is no match for the pure connections granted to Priors, religious priest/warriors, by the Ori, allowing ordinary people, if they are religious and loyal enough to them, to have raw power and finesse only dreamed of by Jedi/Sith. In addition, the ascensions achieved are not truly comparable to the real thing, as they could not prevent themselves from being absorbed into this plane into indistinguishable energy, and could not interact significantly with lower planes. Unfortunately for the Jedi, now that the Ancients are aware of, and at war with, them, their minor connections to the ‘Force’, as they call higher existences, will soon be snapped! There is also the point that higher beings can fight against each other in ways unimaginable by the lower planes, and considering that the Q have decayed, while the Ancients have progressed, and the Ori are worship-enhanced, the Q are in for a far greater humbling than in “Deja Q”…
So, that’s some dirt on the Ori and Ancients. Another fact is that the Ori can gain a stronger influence by having people worship them, and it is estimated that two galaxies’ populations would be enough to grant them total power. Also, the Ori ‘s empire has attained a technological level even higher through ‘divine revelations’ of the priors, enhancing their battle fleets, weaponry, and holy warriors. In the other galaxy, the Ancient technology was shared with its allies, and what was left behind by the Ancients also improved these groups tech. As a final factor, the Replicators have fine tuned all these technologies as only block-based rapidly adapting mechanical bugs can, sometimes finding significant improvements.
All in all, this should help show that Star Gate has the most advanced technology physically possible in any galaxy, along with a relation with the higher planes of existence, and that they are massively superior in all but numbers.

 

[Perfection]

But that's not import. The import thing is SG-1 is a bunch of crazily lucky mofos who cannot be destroyed!

 

[Warman17]

But that's not import. The import thing is SG-1 is a bunch of crazily lucky mofos who cannot be destroyed!

All I know is this:

Tribbles will certainly mess up their day.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

They do work on physical objects. They have two distinct forms of shielding - 'Ray Shields' which counter energy weapons - And "Particle Shields" which block physical objects. Just look at things like the Force fields that keep the atmosphere inside the open Hangers on Starships, the force fields that separated Obi-Wan from Darth Maul and Qui-Gon in Episode I, and those crazy water-shield things that the Gungans used to maintain air bubbles around their cities.

Gungan shields are absurd. They can keep out water at an extremely high psi, yet they can't keep out humans that are 70% water and of very low pressure (despite the fact that the humans were able to dive deep with only the aid of some noseplugs). I assure you, water is very much physical in nature.

 

[nc-1701]

The can destroy planets using an exotic, Chain-raction weapon. The actual energy of the weapon is numerous orders of magnitude below the raw power needed to destroy a planet, as seen in their performance against ships whose performance levels are known be far below planet-killing energy. (Voyager, Borg Cubes)

Their raw energy is still immense as we saw when they fired straight through a Borg Cube, and although we don't know a Cubes shields we do kno it is made of very strong alloys thats 3km of strong alloy it just shot through...

Not a problem when you only have a handful of planets to protect (Asgard and Asurans) or can become completely nomadic (Ancient City-Ships, and nigh-any replicator construct)

Still leaves your production base completely wiped out.

'Sufficient numbers' here being hundreds of thousands.

In your opinion.

-ZPMs store energy on a planet-busting scale. Three such devices are used in the powering of a single City-Ship. Just one is sufficient to operate the city's shields.
-Sustained Wraith bombardment is a noteworthy drain on the power of said ZPMs.
-The Asgard once collapsed a main-sequence star into a black hole, then gave it enough mass to start pulling an Earthlike planet out of its orbit.
-The Goa'uld system Lord Sokar took the once-habitable moon of his capital planet, and bombarded it until the entire surface was a hellish mass of magma and slag metal. He expected to repeat this act in a reasonable timeframe with a single ship.

Which we can use again to show that their ZPM powered shields are somewhat limited in power. In a recent Episode we saw a Wraith cruiser unleash several dozen shots on the surface of a planet. We saw the explosian from space, but it was merely a large mushroom cloud. I estimate then that each shot had an energy output in the high kiloton range possibly low megaton. A photon Torpedo is 100megaton. We also know that Wraith ships are capable of damaging the shields of Daedalus and Atlantis suggesting that their shields wouldn't stop more than low gigaton yields at best. A barrage of several dozen Photon torpedos shield eliminate most anything in Stargate Univrse, we also know that Borg ships can launch torpedos very rapidly that are stronger than normal photons.

Having a vastly more powerful navy on alert, ready to engage and destroy any interlopers, complimented by automated defence satelites.

You would have under 30 seconds to stop it before Earth or any other planet went boom.

And yet, when paralell-Earth was atacked by Apophis near the end of season 1 (Or was it 2?) they reported 200 Megaton explosions over the Major Cities which he has destroyed. Can you cite specific examples where Goa'uld ships showed low-yield blasts, and it is beyond reasonable doubt meant to be a high-power strategic bombardment, rather than a more precise assault?

I was basing my assumption on the Goa'uld strikes during the assualt on the Tollan. Based on later episodes we know that the Goa'uld have bombs with similar yield to nuclear weapons. That sounds like what happend there.

When in the entirely of Star Trek has a warship ever shot down an inbound torpedo while in battle? Prove that Trek's accuracy and refire rates will be able to cope with the sort of missile barrages that an Earth warship can dish out.

Never, but remember that a Star Trek torpedo travels at warp speed to its target. An Earth torpedo does not making it far easier to shott down.

Sorry, when have Terran railguns done any apreciable damage to an enemy's shields? I recall them being quite useless against anything other than fighters, and unshielded vessels like Wraith Hiveships.

Well in a recent episode they devastated a Lucian Alliance Hat'ak

When you outpower a foe by a few orders of magnitude, you don't need to worry about there being thousands of them. Just more meat for the grinder.

But when you are only slightly stronger you must fear the vast Star Trek war machine.


Before you can claim vastly superior weapons you must cme up with a rough estimate as to those weapons actual power. The only times we see ships fire on Planets or Asteroids we see minimal damage, Anubis's planet buster being an exception. As I said the Goa'uld attack on the Tollan, The Wraith ship that bombarded the planet with the mutated Wraith on it, and well thats all that immediatly comes to mind. In both of these the yields are clearly inferior to the established yields of Photon torpedos.



@Taper

First, the Asgard would visit all the major planets of either the SW or ST in a matter of minutes and drop off a time-dilation device. These babies slow down time by a factor of 10,000. By the time the enemy even realized what had happened, many years would have passed outside. Several centuries could go by before they find and deactivate the devices. We could also use these things to speed up our time, negating any production advantage ST/SW has.

We would just beam the darned things back... Besides I highly doubt the Asgard can mass produce these things. btw screw around with time to much and the USS Relativity will come and then Star Trek will be totally unbeatable...

Now we have a couple of options. We can turn their suns into black holes, blow up the stars, airdrop replicators, Aschen bioweapons, orbital bombardment, send an asteroid their way...

Perhaps, but on thousends of differant worlds before we launch any sort of counterattack?

Dealing with space fleets, Federation ships have been shown to be destroyed by a collision with a smaller vessel at sublight speed, so even a modern nuke fired at them shouldn't have a problem. Rom, Klingon, Dominion, etc are similar. The Borg can have a nuke beamed into the middle of their ship, vaporizing it. Species 8742 was stopped in their tracks by nanobots, which several species in SG have used. Star Trek loses.

Yes, but the energy of a several million tonne shielded object impacting at a sigifigant portion the speed of light is orders of magnitude higher than a nuke. Besides they survive Photon Torpedo hits which are 100megatons. Also Borg have shields so you can't beam in a nuke, it might work once but they will remodulate their shields and the other 29,999 Borg ships will assimilate you. Species 8472 was stopped by nanobots, they still have massively high ebergy output, and planet busting ability.

 

[Wolfe Tone]

Species 8472 was stopped by nanobots, they still have massively high ebergy output, and planet busting ability.

Also didn't Voyager hand over a sample of the nanobots to 8472 so they could study them. I would expect that they have at least made some progress with regard to resisting them.

 

[Zarn]

R2-D2 pwns all!!!

He is the reason why the Naboo and later the Rebellion even had a shot. I don't care who or what he is up against, he will win.

The Empire seemed to have awful tacticians, but the Rebellion leaders were very good at fighting much larger and more advanced forces. Put the Rebel leaders in charge of the Imperial military.

Not to mention that the rebel troopers and pilots had a lot of guts. Put a squad of stormtroopers under a rebel commando. It would make a huge difference.

I cannot believe that I responded to this thread. I know a little about SW, so I just wanted to get that out there.

 

[Alan Bradely]

Before you can claim vastly superior weapons you must cme up with a rough estimate as to those weapons actual power. The only times we see ships fire on Planets or Asteroids we see minimal damage, Anubis's planet buster being an exception. As I said the Goa'uld attack on the Tollan, The Wraith ship that bombarded the planet with the mutated Wraith on it, and well thats all that immediatly comes to mind. In both of these the yields are clearly inferior to the established yields of Photon torpedos.

See Below on weapons

We would just beam the darned things back... Besides I highly doubt the Asgard can mass produce these things.

Now that the Asgard are free from replicators, they can, and if you could beam them back, by the time you found them and did it, months, or more likely years would have past...

Perhaps, but on thousends of differant worlds before we launch any sort of counterattack?

First, yes, and second, we are the one who can cross intergalactic space in minutes. Besides, your counter attack would be feeble.

Yes, but the energy of a several million tonne shielded object impacting at a significant portion the speed of light is orders of magnitude higher than a nuke. Besides they survive Photon Torpedo hits which are 100megatons. Also Borg have shields so you can't beam in a nuke, it might work once but they will remodulate their shields and the other 29,999 Borg ships will assimilate you. Species 8472 was stopped by nanobots, they still have massively high energy output, and planet busting ability.

Borg shield tech is (relative to Ancient) old, so they won't be able to block it, and replicators would eat them, and use enhanced Cubes against them. FEAR BORG CUBES WITH ANCIENT TECHNOLOGY ADDED!!!
Ummm, who cares about energy output if the nanobots kill them, they retreated, remember. Besides, we would enhance the nanobots to make them more effective.

Finally, if you look at my massive post, that explains why our tech is so far ahead. Just because the energy out put is slightly smaller, doesn't mean it's weaker. That's like saying tanks are weaker vs huge flying boulders than RPG's simply because they have more energy. We have better tech, BY DEFINITION! See above.

 

[Masquerouge]

I cannot believe that I responded to this thread. I know a little about SW, so I just wanted to get that out there.

Do you feel the Force pulling you in?

 

[Yuri2356]

Their raw energy is still immense as we saw when they fired straight through a Borg Cube, and although we don't know a Cubes shields we do kno it is made of very strong alloys thats 3km of strong alloy it just shot through...

Because the ship is solid Armour all the war through... Oh wait...

Still leaves your production base completely wiped out.

Ancient city-ships could resettle to wherever they choose, or just mine raw materials from non-planetary bodies.

In your opinion.

In the opinion of a little thing called "Order of Magnitude".

Which we can use again to show that their ZPM powered shields are somewhat limited in power. In a recent Episode we saw a Wraith cruiser unleash several dozen shots on the surface of a planet. We saw the explosian from space, but it was merely a large mushroom cloud. I estimate then that each shot had an energy output in the high kiloton range possibly low megaton.

Proof that their weapons were firing at their maximum firepower? Also keep in mind that the bombardment of Atlantis involved a Hive ship, in addition to its supporting group of cruisers.

A photon Torpedo is 100megaton.

These observations beg to differ.

We also know that Wraith ships are capable of damaging the shields of Daedalus and Atlantis suggesting that their shields wouldn't stop more than low gigaton yields at best.

And yet, the ZPM-pumped shields of the Dedalus took a head-on impact from a Coronal Mass Ejection. An event estimated here to be in the range of Gigatons per second.

A barrage of several dozen Photon torpedos shield eliminate most anything in Stargate Univrse, we also know that Borg ships can launch torpedos very rapidly that are stronger than normal photons.

You would have under 30 seconds to stop it before Earth or any other planet went boom.

Automated defensive satelites, primed and ready to fire.

I was basing my assumption on the Goa'uld strikes during the assualt on the Tollan. Based on later episodes we know that the Goa'uld have bombs with similar yield to nuclear weapons. That sounds like what happend there.

Never, but remember that a Star Trek torpedo travels at warp speed to its target. An Earth torpedo does not making it far easier to shott down.

Which is why we see Photon torpedoes drift their way across the screen at a distinctly slower-than-light pace...

Well in a recent episode they devastated a Lucian Alliance Hat'ak

But when you are only slightly stronger you must fear the vast Star Trek war machine.

Their standard ship-to-ship guns are orders of magnitude above the firepower of Trek's missiles, and each vessel carries far more of these weapons than The typical Trek ships has Torpedo launchers.

Before you can claim vastly superior weapons you must cme up with a rough estimate as to those weapons actual power. The only times we see ships fire on Planets or Asteroids we see minimal damage, Anubis's planet buster being an exception. As I said the Goa'uld attack on the Tollan, The Wraith ship that bombarded the planet with the mutated Wraith on it, and well thats all that immediatly comes to mind. In both of these the yields are clearly inferior to the established yields of Photon torpedos.

See the above CME event with the Dedalus + ZPM, then recall that Wraith bombardment could defeat Antlantis' ZPM powered shields within a day.

Yes, but the energy of a several million tonne shielded object impacting at a sigifigant portion the speed of light is orders of magnitude higher than a nuke. Besides they survive Photon Torpedo hits which are 100megatons. Also Borg have shields so you can't beam in a nuke, it might work once but they will remodulate their shields and the other 29,999 Borg ships will assimilate you. Species 8472 was stopped by nanobots, they still have massively high ebergy output, and planet busting ability.

Oh, those little Jem'Hadar bug-fighters weigh several million tons?

 

[Masquerouge]

Anyway I think the poll results gave us the answer. Star Wars FTW!

 

[Fugitive Sisyphus]

Anyway I think the poll results gave us the answer. Star Wars FTW!

Next time there a war starts, we should have a poll here at CFC to find out who wins. Losers go home, winners partay.

 

[Masquerouge]

Next time there a war starts, we should have a poll here at CFC to find out who wins. Losers go home, winners partay.

No kidding! CFC is the absolute truth.