Intermediate Unit Class

[Oni Ryuu]

Having just foot or cavalry/mechanised units just doesn’t do it for me. I now have an intermediate class.

Infantry units are marked as Foot units and Tactical Missiles.
Cavalry and Light units are marked as Foot units.
Mechanised units are kept as normal

The benefits:
Infantry units can load into infantry (load Foot and Tactical Missiles) and Tactical Missile transports but nothing else. All of my modern warships load Tactical Missiles and therefore infantry too.
Infantry with the bombard ability can now fire from aboard ships.
Cavalry and Light units can load into Light (load Foot) and Mechanised transports.
Mechanised units are limited to loading in Mechanised transports.

It’s made my game so much more fun. Why not have your Archers torch that Galley or your TOW Infantry destroy that Patrol Boat?

 

[Jorsalfare]

Interesting! Does the attack run as normal with infantry units defined as Tactical Missile? Does a bombard attack consume such a unit? How does AI cope with these restrictions - and have you changed the AI tactic flag? In my mod I have only two classes - foot units and none-foot units (Tactical missiles are the only units tagged as that). Sea- or air-transports that can carry other than foot units doesn't become available until the modern era, and AI seems to cope well with this setup.
Regards. Sigurd

 

[Oni Ryuu]

I’ve been using this method for a while and there’s no downside. I can’t find a fault. There’s no nuclear consequences, no compromises and the Ai doesn’t beehive any differently. They build, attack, bombard, irrigate and everything else they normally do to the same proportions and manner as they did before.

Does the attack run as normal with infantry units defined as Tactical Missile?

Just give them the normal AI Strategy.

Does a bombard attack consume such a unit?

Only if you add the Cruise Missile ability.

How does AI cope with these restrictions - and have you changed the AI tactic flag?

It’s like the game was made for it. Keep all of the AI Strategies you were using.

In my mod I have only two classes - foot units and none-foot units (Tactical missiles are the only units tagged as that). Sea- or air-transports that can carry other than foot units doesn't become available until the modern era, and AI seems to cope well with this setup.

If Tactical Nuclear Missiles were available in the ancient era they still wouldn’t be able to load into a transport that loads Foot & Tactical Missile units. When Tactical Missile transports become available, infantry class units (Foot + Tactical Missile) and Tactical Nuclear Missiles can load onto them.

You need to change all of you infantry transports to load Foot & Tactical Missile units.

It’s so simple and so ridiculously beneficial that I can’t believe that it isn’t the standard setup.

 

[Oni Ryuu]

In my game, I can have a Heavy Cruiser loaded with Harriers, Apaches, Naval SAM’s, Auxiliary Turrets, Marines, VX Gas Missiles, Nukes and much, much more.

If all of that sounds hard to believe, here’s the thread for the download.

 

[Blue Monkey]

Having just foot or cavalry/mechanised units just doesn’t do it for me. I now have an intermediate class.

Infantry units are marked as Foot units and Tactical Missiles.
Cavalry and Light units are marked as Foot units.
Mechanised units are kept as normal

The benefits:
Infantry units can load into infantry (load Foot and Tactical Missiles) and Tactical Missile transports but nothing else. ...

This sounds like a way to effectively implement vehicles as land transports that are not Armies. Have you tried this?

 

[Oni Ryuu]

I’m not quite sure what you’re pointing out. If you’re asking if the AI use land transports; I’ve not seen anything conclusive. I have suspected it a number of times but I can’t prove it.
I do have a large range of land transports that work for human players.

I also have a convoluted system for transporting land transports by land, air and sea.

Option A

1. Make your upgrade line of land transports
2. Mark them as King Units
3. Make a proto unit (available with the first land transport)
4. Have the proto unit upgrade to the line of land transports

The proto unit will be the only one that appears in the menu. It can be transported to any city with a barracks to be upgraded to the unit matching your level of tech.

If you don’t use golden ages
Option B

1. Make your upgrade line of land transports
2. Make a proto unit (available with the first land transport)
3. Give the proto unit the Starts Golden Age ability
4. Have the proto unit upgrade to the line of land transports

The result is the same as Option A but the land transport also appears in the menu.

Option A & B are single use. Once you upgrade the proto unit; the land transport can’t load onto a vehicle again.

If you’re not using military leaders
Option C

1. Chose Option A or B
2. Give the land transports the Build Army ability
3. Make the proto unit the Build-Army Unit in the General Settings page

The land transport can reset to the proto unit at will. Remember to update the Build Army button graphics.

Additionally, your proto unit can be traded with other players if it doesn’t have combat stats.

 

[Ozymandias]

Having just foot or cavalry/mechanised units just doesn’t do it for me. I now have an intermediate class.

Infantry units are marked as Foot units and Tactical Missiles.
Cavalry and Light units are marked as Foot units.
Mechanised units are kept as normal

The benefits:
Infantry units can load into infantry (load Foot and Tactical Missiles) and Tactical Missile transports but nothing else. All of my modern warships load Tactical Missiles and therefore infantry too.
Infantry with the bombard ability can now fire from aboard ships.
Cavalry and Light units can load into Light (load Foot) and Mechanised transports.
Mechanised units are limited to loading in Mechanised transports.

It’s made my game so much more fun. Why not have your Archers torch that Galley or your TOW Infantry destroy that Patrol Boat?

Nope, not "necro-threading" -

I'm "deep diving" into very old & lengthy info about AI builds. - What's the approximate ratio of AI builds among these 3 unit types? There is a definite order of preference, re: Flags, which affects what the AI builds. I'll be posting much more on this matter in the near future.

 

[Oni Ryuu]

I’ve not noticed any obvious changes to what units the AI produces or their numbers.

 

[Ozymandias]

I'm planning on starting up a few new threads in the near term future, one on AI builds. All things being equal - no unit flags etc. - the basic game AI builds Defensive:Offensive units at a ration of ~ 60:40, following a set formula, with a number of known and unknown (random?) variables thrown in for variety's sake. Among the known variables are the AI's preference - in order - for a specific sequence of flags.

So perhaps my question wasn't clear enough. Assuming that you're describing 3 different type of land units - with none of them being (specifically) Artillery, Marines, or Paras - what sort of approximate build ratio do you see the AI building among these 3 different types of units? The basic game engine is (essentially) designed to build 1 best Attacker and 1 beast defender, with a formula {evidently involving dividing the phase of the moon by "pi"} ( ) to mix it up a bit, with slight variations of AF/DF combinations, and ditto paras and marines.

When I initiated an investigation into AI unit builds Many Moons Ago, these flag preferences (among a few other glaring gems) were staring quite a few of us in the face, and it never occurred to any of us to try what you've done: to use a flag - presumably there aren't any actual cruise missiles in your mod? - to influence AI build behavior. This could be a major-league breakthrough in mod making: "re-purposing" otherwise unused flags to change AI build behavior.
- So, , some "guestimate" build ratios ... ?

 

[Oni Ryuu]

In this regard, I’ve only made passive observations whilst playing. As far as I’m aware, the ‘size’ doesn’t have much (or any) influence on the AI’s preferences. The main factors are combat stats, AI Strategies’, and build cost.

presumably there aren't any actual cruise missiles in your mod?

The current TLC mod does use a variety of cruise missile units but their stats make them undesirable to the AI until they become industrialised and highly productive.

So, perhaps a ratio guestimate of 1:1:1 using anthropomancy, oracle bones and a spirit quest. The truth is that my mod is too different to make useful comparisons with vanilla.

 

[Ozymandias]

Understood, & TY That "guestimate of 1:1:1 using anthropomancy, oracle bones and a spirit quest" is actually quite helpful. I started what became a very long thread on "AI" builds years ago, and your use of flags brought it right back to mind, with multiple metaphorical forehead slappings; wailings & moanings; etc. I'll be starting up a new thread on that in a few days. Insofar as I am concerned, you are now an Official C3C Muse (and the first one, too!) even though my own general, "go-to" formula for such guestimations entails dividing the phase of the moon by pi.

-z

 

[Oni Ryuu]

They probably sold you the wrong intestines. You need a fresh B-4 colon for moon work.

You’re very welcome. I’m glad I could help somehow.

 

[Ozymandias]

AHH! The fresh B-4 colon! - Just keep an eye out for the new thread.

 

[Ozymandias]

@Oni Ryuu - Despite some unfortunate delays, your "guestimation" reply of a "1:1:1" production ratio has remained in my thoughts, an thread about manipulating AI unit build choices will finally, be Showing Up Soon, In A Thread In A Forum Near You!

... In all seriousness - what are the full stats for the 3 units in question? (BTW, I've d/l-ed your "TLC Mercantile" mod, and to say that it looks "interesting" is quite the understatement.)

 

[Oni Ryuu]

Thanks, Ozymandias
With luck, the next version should totally outclass everything made so far.

A quick test implied this ratio for equal stats.
4 (Foot Missile): 2 (Foot): 1 (Mech)

 

[Ozymandias]

With luck, the next version should totally outclass everything made so far.

Is there any chance of a (descriptive) sneak preview?

 

[Oni Ryuu]

• More racially and geographically diverse civilisations
• Civilisations are now assigned a unit pack from one of five sets that best match the civ’s culture, climate, geography etc.
• Climate appropriate terrain improvements
• Some civ specific governments, buildings and units
• Simpler unit progression
• Simpler scientific development
• Greater emphasis on industry, economics and pollution management
• Improved user interface
• Expanded civilopedia

 

[Ozymandias]

• Civilisations are now assigned a unit pack from one of five sets that best match the civ’s culture, climate, geography etc.
• Climate appropriate terrain improvements

Interesting! It seems that both approaching using Culture Groups in a similar fashion.