"Intoxicating" Resources

[Alzara]

Hey guys

Just wondering what peoples thoughts are on alternative resources such as tobacco or opium etc.

Civ 3 used to have tobacco as a resource. It would be interesting to include poppies or other drug-based resources. Alcohol already features (breweries and wine), so why not other drugs like tobacco?

Would this be a good idea, or would it make FfH a little controversial?

Maybe even fantasy based drugs (like those in D&D 3rd Ed forgotten realms) could add some interesting ideas. Dream flowers or something.

Maybe these could add happiness but reduce production in nearby cities?

Any ideas?

Al

 

[smjjames]

I'm pretty sure Kael would rather stay away from drug references. While it's an ok idea, I'm really not in support of this idea.

 

[Celenduil]

I agree.

References to rape and murder are all well and good, but including drugs into the game could be a bad influence for some of the younger players.

 

[Alzara]

The game already contains drugs. As much as people try and deny it, alchohol is a drug in all respects. I was just proposing adding more.

If real-world drugs are problematic due to law and stigma, then fantastical ones could be created. FfH is modelled in Erebus, which is a Dungeons and Dragons world. Dungeons and Dragons has drugs (which act like poisons with unique effects). Seeing as this is a dark fantasy world, I can't see fantastical "poisons" with mixed effects being detremental to the world. Tobacco at least is very mild and used to be included in Civilisation 3.

Your opinion is fine though. I can understand why some people could think this to be a tenuous topic.

Anyone else got ideas about the prospect?

Al

 

[Mailbox]

It might be interesting to have resources that gave happiness but unhealth or health but unhappiness. Having resources that you might not want to harvest would be a cool strategic idea.

 

[Alzara]

LOL Celenduil I'm assuming that's a joke there

Yeah I was thinking along the lines of "should I get that resource?". It would make city placement interesting. The resources would act in the same way as penguins I guess, and the player would have to decide if it is worth some of his cities having a certain bonus at the cost of a certain penalty

Al

 

[Celenduil]

There are already drugs in the game. The Octopus Overlords use them to induce visions in the Dreamers (Hannah the Irin's civilipedia entry).

Yeah, I was joking in my initial post, lol. Actually, there could be lots of things you could use these resources for:

Affecting your armies, maybe giving them higher strength at first, but progressive degeneration as the unit ages.

Religious bonuses of some sort and events. Could even be a resource needed to produce cultists, since, after all, they need it to use on the Dreamers.

Gain in wealth. Maybe you could have it increase the crime rate for civilizations that have banned it, while providing your civ with extra funds. The cost could be decrease in relations with other civs, health issues, and events.

Poisons (for assassins). Maybe act like copper and iron, but for assassins and maybe Night Watch. Obviously something a Council of Esus player might want to acquire.

I suspect the Order would frown upon its use (being on drugs doesn't make one very ordered, law abiding, or controllable), so there could be some religion specific effects there.

And, the list goes on...

 

[Alzara]

Hmm I can see the religious use of these resources. Especially now you have brought up OO cultists

It could get a bit complex using resources that certain religions/civs will ban or frown upon but it would make the game very realistic and interesting.

Think of opium ridden britain

The possibilities for extra resources of this type are plentiful. My concern is whether or not the game can include more resources. Time and time again I've seen issues related to reagents being too rare.

I hope these resources could be inculded. It would be realistic and akin to real life. Not to mention adding strategic value to city placement and a spice to the already dark fantasy environment.

Btw for those who are wondering, I don't condone the use of illegal drugs in real life. I'm actually quite against the idea. But you cannot deny the effect that these things have had in history, as well as the enormous potential when creating "fantasy" intoxicants, which can have almost magical effects.

Your ideas are good Celenduil. I hope they could be implemented with the strategic effects (i.e. positive and negative effect) of these resources.

Any other thoughts from the FfH community?

Kael what do you think of this idea (if you are reading this)?

Al

 

[Soam]

Why not use the existing resources to make the drugs through a new building or some of the existing ones? Like rice being made into sake with a brewery?

 

[[NWO]_Valis]

I think it is already done.

It strikes me that none of you have thought about the corporation mechanics for that.

For example the Ratchachers guild could transform your reagents and/or incense into some kind of drug. It would give your civ a but take the preciouse resourese from you [you would have to have more than one of that resource to have mages!] This would be an incentive to get rid of them by lowering your crime rate.

 

[Alzara]

Hmm nice idea. Seeing as crime rate doesn't have much of an effect at the moment

Al

 

[TheJopa]

I like the mechanic, if the AI could handle it. Player could choose not to extract the resource, but AI probably couldn't.

My two cents:
Wine and Brewery simply increase crime
Undercouncil resolution: Harvest Moon Sugar/Skooma/Dream Flower - Adds 1 drug resource for your civ, which gives 2 happy and 3 unhealthy.

 

[Alzara]

Hehe moon sugar and skooma. Nice Oblivion reference

The happiness coupled with unhealthiness makes the most sense for these resources. Two happiness and three unhealthiness per resource sounds good, but would seriously mount if a city had many of these!

Al

 

[TheJopa]

Hehe moon sugar and skooma. Nice Oblivion reference

The happiness coupled with unhealthiness makes the most sense for these resources. Two happiness and three unhealthiness per resource sounds good, but would seriously mount if a city had many of these!

Al

Yeap. I love Morrowind/Oblivion

Well I though only one of these would actually be in game (these were just proposed names) so it would never stack. Or it could be a harvestable resource, but I just don't know how would AI handle it.

Maybe like this: resource by itself gives nothing but to actually get the benefits you need a national wonder?

 

[Kael]

I have nothing against using "controversial" subject matter if it makes the game better. But I dont see a need to add drug use just so we can say we have drug use. The most explicit example of drug use that currently exists in the mod is probably in the Revelry pedia entry.

Remove all the flavor and just look at it from a function standpoint (new resource that is -health and +comerce or -health and +happy) and I dont know that it is really that interesting. A corporation that "manufactures" one resource into another is an interesting mechanic. Though we would probably be more apt to use it with something like having the guild of hammers produce a special resource if iron is available, etc.

Although drug use isnt unique to the modern era it doesnt seem all that in keeping with our dark fantasy theme. If we were to invest real mehanics into it, those would be more fitting in a non-fantasy mod. that being said I think a mod that does the following:

1. Provides a civic selection for drug policy (governmental backing, legalization, illegal, war on drugs)
2. Tracks cities amount of crime and drug use (maybe a few other custom values along these lines)
3. Allows civs producing drugs to make money selling into other civs, even through closed borders.
4. Include a wide variety of events that impact the durg use, money flwoing between countries and the cities crime/drug/etc stats.
5. Allow hidden nationality drug cartel units that a civ could use to guard his drug crops.
6. Allow for DEA units that can attempt to attack and defeat those units.
7. Allow drug resources to be cultivated in tiles such that players could try to find an obscure place on the map to hide their drug produiction (and DEA agents could be searching for these and destroying them).

 

[Sofista]

...besides, many complain that resources sometimes fail to appear because of lack of space. Adding other ones would make it even worse, right?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

You know many historical references to "magic" are more accurately translated as drug abuse. For instance, the word typically used in the Bible for sorcery is the Greek root of the word Pharmacy, which in ancient times only referred to drugs that aren't really good for you, as opposed to medicine (Apothecary comes from their word for good medicines). The main word for witchcraft in Latin, Veneficia, is literally "poison-making."

(Other types of magic/divination are referred to as "ventriloquism" )


The new resources don't have to be ones that appear normally; they could be made only though buildings or spawn on certain improvements.


Whether it had anything to do with Drugs or not, I would love to see a "Blackmarket" mechanic added, probably tied to the Undercouncil and maybe to the smugglers ports. This could let you buy resources that other leaders have but won't trade, probably with a fairly high cost and an increase in teh crime rate. Perhaps you could also sell resources to the black market, at a high price, but not no who will end up with them eventually.

 

[Caradoc]

Some of the "vanilla" mods like Amra's have "Hemp" as a resource.

 

[Alzara]

Tying these resources to buildings seems appropriate. I have to agree with Magister, a black market would be awesome. The crime rate has yet to have much of an effect, and many of the ideas Kael put forth would tie in well with this largely unused mechanic

Al

 

[Mortenart]

Although drug use isnt unique to the modern era it doesnt seem all that in keeping with our dark fantasy theme.

On the contrary, I think that the use of narcotics would be perfect for a dark fantasy game. It would really benefit from some edgier resources such as narcotics, that would stir up dissent in the Overcouncil and between Civs. Drugs have been used for thousands of years, to imagine new worlds, to see into the unknown areas of our minds, and to conjure new possibilities and philosophies. Any fantasy world is less rich without them.