Invisible Units- Queries etc.

[dexters]

All of you may recall the 'sub' bug which caused units auto moving onto a tile with submarine to automatically attack the submarine causing a war between the two parties.

I'm testing a mod with invisible units on a Vista installed CivComplete 1.22, and as part of the test, I popped down the invisible unit owned by the AI and put it next to one of my units (without detect invisible). I then ran the mod (with debug mod OFF) and tried to move my unit past the tile where I know the AI unit is (but can't see)

I get a 'This will cause a War with the Persians' dialog box.

Curious, I tried it again on the same map, this time on the unmodded Submarine (owned by the AI) and my transport.

Again, I can't see the sub, tried to path the transport through the tile with the submarine on it, and I immediately get a warning.

So questions
1) Is the sub bug fixed for CivComplete? or is the bug itself more complex (ie: the units have to physically collide in the inter-turn as units automove? )

2) In this mod, I gave the Guerrilla the invisble flag as well as detect invisible. Then ran a debug game with the AI in the future era, with easy access to oil, rubber and aluminum. Even after connecting those resources, it seems all the AI want to build are Guerrilla and a lot of Tow Infantry. which gets the 'detect invisible' flag only. Instead of building the more powerful attacking units such as modern armor. The persians in my test game had like 10 mech inf, 15 guerrilla, 15 tow infantry, and 3 (three) modern Armor. Is this an issue with invisible land units that the AI prizes them so highly that they perhaps build too many of them?

Comments, suggestions from Modders with experience pretaining to modding invisible units would be very much appreciated.

 

[WildWeazel]

1. I believe it only happens when the unit is moving along a path, ie, in the inter-turn or after given a go-to order, not when told to move directly onto the tile.

2. AI loves invisible units. It's usually best not to make them buildable.

 

[Virote_Considon]

1) Is the sub bug fixed for CivComplete? or is the bug itself more complex (ie: the units have to physically collide in the inter-turn as units automove? )

It only happens to the AI, I think. If the human is in control, you always get the message.

2) In this mod, I gave the Guerrilla the invisble flag as well as detect invisible. Then ran a debug game with the AI in the future era, with easy access to oil, rubber and aluminum. Even after connecting those resources, it seems all the AI want to build are Guerrilla and a lot of Tow Infantry. which gets the 'detect invisible' flag only. Instead of building the more powerful attacking units such as modern armor. The persians in my test game had like 10 mech inf, 15 guerrilla, 15 tow infantry, and 3 (three) modern Armor. Is this an issue with invisible land units that the AI prizes them so highly that they perhaps build too many of them?.

Yep. And I think it prizes hidden nationality units even more so! What I'd suggest is to not allow these units to be built normally, but be spawned from a wonder or something, as Weasel Op suggests.

 

[Vuldacon]

yes, it is the AI that runs into the invisible units.

I have invisible Zombies in EFZI2 (Sneaky Zombies) and the AI can build them. They do not cause any problems concerning the AI building other Units.
Yes, the AI will build plenty of them but not so many that it appears off balance.

The other Unit Settings affect the over all value of the invisible units and I also believe having more units that detect invisible units for other CIVs affects how many are built but that is just an opinion based on observation.

IF you must have control of how many invisible units are built and you are using Unit Settings for them that are so valuable that the AI builds too many of them, it is best to have them Auto-Produced so you can dictate how often they are built and the over all number of them.

 

[tom2050]

Some of the unit options have very high value set by AI to build them more often. Some of these can be used to get AI to build units it normally does not place much value on. One of the most highly prized options is the Enslave option, which even if the enslave unit is set to None, the AI still prizes it and will build an inferior unit instead of a more useful unit. The Detect Invisible seems to have a similar effect on AI as you have shown in the number of units AI built.

What I find strange, is that Firaxsis gave their subs Detect Invisible, which is counter-intuitive to what Destroyers are useful for. My take is that they didn't feel like fixing the sub-bug, so just gave subs in the game that ability also.

Tom

 

[wolf_brother]

Some of the unit options have very high value set by AI to build them more often. Some of these can be used to get AI to build units it normally does not place much value on. One of the most highly prized options is the Enslave option, which even if the enslave unit is set to None, the AI still prizes it and will build an inferior unit instead of a more useful unit. The Detect Invisible seems to have a similar effect on AI as you have shown in the number of units AI built.

Wait... so if you just flag, a Chariot per say, with Detect Invisible, the AI will build them even if Horsemen are available?

 

[tom2050]

Wait... so if you just flag, a Chariot per say, with Detect Invisible, the AI will build them even if Horsemen are available?

It will probably build many more than usual. Same goes for most options... Enslave, Stealth (even if no units are set), and many many others. It was found with pretty good detail how many of these options effect the AI build rates in Ozy's thread How Does The AI Choose Which Units To Build? . I'm pretty sure tests on Invisible were done also (not sure if detect invisible was tested though).

Tom

 

[Ozymandias]

A few things - the AI LOVES invisible and Hidden Nationality units.

A bizarre thing: the following is from http://www.microsoft.com/windows/co...=&pf=0&pi=7&c=PC Gaming&sc=Strategy&os=32-bit .

Best,

Oz

 

[Vuldacon]

OZ... generally if a Program is not written for 64 Bit Systems, when it is installed it is automatically placed in a separate System Folder that is for 32 Bit Programs. There are not many 64 Bit Programs as compared to 32 but that is changing.

The Point is that we can install and use CIV on a 64 Bit System. CIV may not be able to take advantage of the 64 Bit System as other Games can but it Runs the same with no problems.
That may be what the "Not Compatible" means in what you found.

 

[Ozymandias]

OZ... generally if a Program is not written for 64 Bit Systems, when it is installed it is automatically placed in a separate System Folder that is for 32 Bit Programs. There are not many 64 Bit Programs as compared to 32 but that is changing.

The Point is that we can install and use CIV on a 64 Bit System. CIV may not be able to take advantage of the 64 Bit System as other Games can but it Runs the same with no problems.
That may be what the "Not Compatible" means in what you found.

Ah, my friend, you missed a subtlety in the attachment: it's displaying the 32 bit tab.

Best,

Oz