Ironworking Slingshot Blitz
- Thread starter Brota
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Trickster7135
Prince
Its more like a risky strategy, since you won't even know if you have iron or not until after you release the slingshot.
Trickster7135
Prince
On that note, I'd rather have pikemen than swordsmen if I'm going to slingshot though the tech tree.
Martin Alvito
Real men play SMAC
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Cheap Pikes are better against the living than against the AI. It deploys Pike-eating Swordsmen fearfully early on the higher levels.
Unless you're playing against Rome with its Legions or China with it's ultra-Generals, the extra 1 strength that Swords have over Pikes is pretty negligible. Especially when you can field almost twice the Landsknechts on hammers alone (50 vs. 80) and possibly more if your opponent is low on Iron. And at the army sizes you're likely to have just after a GL-Civil Service slingshot, they're not too likely to get tangled up because of 1UPT at that point. (Maintenance can be a killer, though.)
Now, if the AI gets quick Longswordsmen, you're going to be pretty severely outclassed, but it's still pretty doable when you take into account that 1) your Landsknechts get a bonus against cavalry, which Longswords don't and 2) you can field three times the units per hammer with LKs compared to LSes. You're likely to lose a good number of them, but play it smart and keep up your flanking bonuses (and support with some Horsemen) and you shouldn't have much problem. Even (or actually especially) against spammy AIs.
good luck outproducing the AIs in numbers lol. Unless you can produce 1 landsknecht/turn from all cities, it's not enough.
Martin Alvito
Real men play SMAC
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I think you're missing the point, which is that in an equal strength melee slugfest you're going to give up a lot of units to score kills. Either you need the ability to strike with flanking and run away (Horses), or you need a strength advantage. Even a tactics-driven 3:1 kill ratio is likely to leave you at a net Hammer loss due to population disparity and the AI's tiny production boxes. Worse, the resources stop being a constraint if you're grinding its units into hamburger regularly.
To get the big kill ratios you need, you either need the speed to strike and run, or a massive tech disparity.
pi-r8:
It's quite doable up to King level. I was able to swamp down three Civs in quick succession with large armies of Landsknecht. Wouldn't been able to swamp down more, but I ran out of Civs to conquer on my continent.
The limiting factor when you're fielding in Landsknecht isn't actually production - it's gold. Armies that size have crippling maintenance. With Landknecht and nice production sites, you should be producing one every 6 turns conservatively. I've seen cities produce 1 every 3 turns. In addition, you can use Furor Teutonicus to attack Barb camps with Spearmen or Archers. Half the time, you get an Archer to supplement your massive army, or a Spearman, which you upgrade to Landsknecht for the price of 10 gold.
The army gets so large, effectively using them all become a real tactical challenge. With 10 melee units up front, it's sometimes better to split off 4 to attack some other city.
It's quite doable up to King level. I was able to swamp down three Civs in quick succession with large armies of Landsknecht. Wouldn't been able to swamp down more, but I ran out of Civs to conquer on my continent.
The limiting factor when you're fielding in Landsknecht isn't actually production - it's gold. Armies that size have crippling maintenance. With Landknecht and nice production sites, you should be producing one every 6 turns conservatively. I've seen cities produce 1 every 3 turns. In addition, you can use Furor Teutonicus to attack Barb camps with Spearmen or Archers. Half the time, you get an Archer to supplement your massive army, or a Spearman, which you upgrade to Landsknecht for the price of 10 gold.
The army gets so large, effectively using them all become a real tactical challenge. With 10 melee units up front, it's sometimes better to split off 4 to attack some other city.
aimlessgun
King
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Not necessarily. A good mix of ranged + melee and sound tactics can lead to great ratios. Easier to pull off on defense obviously. But since the AI plunges in headlong, your "offense" can be setting up a defense to kill their whole army before invading.
And of course Drill promotions + hill/forest chokepoint with ranged backup is just sick and wrong. 'Sup warriors holding out vs. horsemen and pikes. (ok that was with China GG and Oligarchy too ^ ^)
haha sounds fun. I want to see screenshots of you doing this on king.
It's really awesome. I never get tired of how the Landsknecht all turn around and re-form and advance with their little pikes against their little enemies. And the hats! So stylish. It's not leet or anything. It is King level, after all.
The only comparably large army I got that early was when I befriended three military city states (as Iroquoi) because there weren't any other types in my continent and I needed the happiness and science boost. Dang. By the time I got to invading anyone else, I had about 14-15 units - and nearly no income!
When I invaded the Aztecs, my invasion fleet blackened the sea! It was epic.
Don't know how to get screen shots up. I'll see if I can scrounge up on the forums on of these days.
The only comparably large army I got that early was when I befriended three military city states (as Iroquoi) because there weren't any other types in my continent and I needed the happiness and science boost. Dang. By the time I got to invading anyone else, I had about 14-15 units - and nearly no income!
When I invaded the Aztecs, my invasion fleet blackened the sea! It was epic.Don't know how to get screen shots up. I'll see if I can scrounge up on the forums on of these days.
Have you actually played Civ V yet? I wonder because everything you always say regarding any strategies for the game is always completely wrong.
The AI military in this game is WEAK. You can EASILY build more units than they can, just as you can build almost every single wonder up to King difficulty. They also always favor growth in all their cities over production. There is also a new ranking that occasionally pops up which ranks civs based on the amount of production in ALL of their cities. Even with just one city, I am always in the top spot for the production ranking throughout all of my games on King difficulty. I've never yet been outranked by any AI for production.
Even if the AI has an army 3 times the size of yours, killing it all is ridiculously easy with just a couple of trebs or cannons behind a few melee units. They have the same combat tactics as an army of terrified blind lemmings.
I havnt played as Germany yet, but judging by all my games so far, If I produced units instead of wonders I would easily have a larger army than the AI, even more so with the half price Landskneck.
Meh, it's easy enough on King, and not overly difficult on Emperor.
Plus, I didn't want to make it sound like it was optimal to send an all-Landsknecht army out after Longswords; it was mostly to point out that versus Swordsmen Landsknechts are pretty much fine, and if your enemy gets up to Steel and you still don't have iron, you can still make due (but obviously getting your own iron, knights, or x-bows would be better).
I'm confused why anyone would rush down the swordsman. I had bad experience with Iron sometimes, and it's quite late (30 turns plus) before you can determine whether there's even iron nearby to mine.
Instead, I prefer to Hoplite rush if there's no enough horses around with Greece. While it's not as effective as Swords, it still packs a punch and really fast to tech to + no unique resources required. Chop forests and save up 270 gold from selling Open Border rights to AI to buy a second one, then start marching to the nearest enemy capital. Take it over and spend it again on a 3rd. By that time a 4th will be out from your capital. And so on. Great General for extra punch + Honor State Policy for 15% adjacent unit bonus. Surround and Destroy.
Instead, I prefer to Hoplite rush if there's no enough horses around with Greece. While it's not as effective as Swords, it still packs a punch and really fast to tech to + no unique resources required. Chop forests and save up 270 gold from selling Open Border rights to AI to buy a second one, then start marching to the nearest enemy capital. Take it over and spend it again on a 3rd. By that time a 4th will be out from your capital. And so on. Great General for extra punch + Honor State Policy for 15% adjacent unit bonus. Surround and Destroy.
swordspider
Dread Multiplayer
Waste of good resources and I could counter your blitz every time.
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