Is governor Moksha OP?

[Art Morte]

I decided to go for a religious victory in my latest game, because I wanted to try out governor Moksha. I won a very easy religious victory on Immortal - although having Island Plates as the map helped a little since water protects you from wars a bit.

Anyway, basically, is Moksha's extra promotion to Apostles ability OP? It's only three promotions to Moksha until you get it and then you can create super Apostles with two promotions. I don't think the AI understands to take advantage of this, so your Apostles will have a big advantage, since the best few promotions are powerful.

Thoughts? And have you tried taking advantage of Moksha the same way?

 

[Siptah]

I was really curious how this would play out. I like to go for RV and as soon as I saw that governor promotion, I thought it would be OP - especially with Yerevan in the game. It makes sense that it is a rather early promotion since RV games often end very early. Couldn‘t try it myself yet, still waiting for the Mac release of R&F.

 

[nzcamel]

Yep. He's OP as with that 3rd promotion. In my Scotland game I had both him and Yerevan! That's what I call a lay down misere! I'm causing enough trouble in my current game on King with just him.

 

[Datian]

Oh wow I misread, I thought it meant an extra spread.

Gotta try a "triple spread in foreign civ" with a "3 extra spreads after visiting a natural wonder"

 

[Art Morte]

Oh wow I misread, I thought it meant an extra spread.

Gotta try a "triple spread in foreign civ" with a "3 extra spreads after visiting a natural wonder"

Yes, most of my apostles had some combination of these promos: +2 spreads // +3 spreads from natural wonder // 75% of other religions negated // triple strength spreads. A few had +20 combat strength. On top of that I had mosques, +1 spread.
Didn't have Yerevan and there was very little need for it, you can pretty much always make some combination of a very powerful apostle with Moksha. Winning was very easy - although I thought the number of religious units the AI built happened to be below average in this particular game.

 

[Arent11]

I decided to go for a religious victory in my latest game, because I wanted to try out governor Moksha. I won a very easy religious victory on Immortal - although having Island Plates as the map helped a little since water protects you from wars a bit.

Anyway, basically, is Moksha's extra promotion to Apostles ability OP? It's only three promotions to Moksha until you get it and then you can create super Apostles with two promotions. I don't think the AI understands to take advantage of this, so your Apostles will have a big advantage, since the best few promotions are powerful.

Thoughts? And have you tried taking advantage of Moksha the same way?

OT question: How well does faith & grand masters chapel work? Does it make sense to spam holy sites everywhere & faith buy an army?

Would this make sense even if you did not get a religion?

 

[Art Morte]

OT question: How well does faith & grand masters chapel work? Does it make sense to spam holy sites everywhere & faith buy an army?

Would this make sense even if you did not get a religion?

It doesn't help towards religious victory, imo. If you're generating faith without anything to spend it on, I guess it's worth considering. The Intelligence Agency seems like the best choice, though. Overall the Gov Plaza choices aren't very well thought out, imo.

 

[Disgustipated]

Not sure I'd call him OP since he only boosts 1 victory type compared to Magnus who can boost all victory types.

By the time I got around to giving him that last promotion in my Georgia game my religious victory was well in hand at that point.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I had a nine-spread apostle when I did my religion game as mapuche. Fun, but as you say I dont think it's any more powerful than some of the others.

 

[leandrombraz]

Yes, most of my apostles had some combination of these promos: +2 spreads // +3 spreads from natural wonder // 75% of other religions negated // triple strength spreads. A few had +20 combat strength. On top of that I had mosques, +1 spread.
Didn't have Yerevan and there was very little need for it, you can pretty much always make some combination of a very powerful apostle with Moksha. Winning was very easy - although I thought the number of religious units the AI built happened to be below average in this particular game.

Before I found Yerevan in my game, I was getting Chaplain (Apostle as medic) and Heathen Conversion (convert barbarians) as option in all my apostles on both promotions, which mean the game was technically choosing the promotion I would get since both options are useless. Did you experience this or you was getting different options every time?

 

[aguliondew]

Yes he is very powerful for religious victories. He is one of the reason why religion is the fastest victory type below immortal difficulty. Most governors have powerful 3 tier abilities expect Liang and Victor both of theirs I can not find a good use for.

 

[nzcamel]

Not sure I'd call him OP since he only boosts 1 victory type compared to Magnus who can boost all victory types.

By the time I got around to giving him that last promotion in my Georgia game my religious victory was well in hand at that point.

Still, he makes that one victory type too easy compared to the others. That's less than ideal. But sure, the Steward needs even more nerfing.

Before I found Yerevan in my game, I was getting Chaplain (Apostle as medic) and Heathen Conversion (convert barbarians) as option in all my apostles on both promotions, which mean the game was technically choosing the promotion I would get since both options are useless. Did you experience this or you was getting different options every time?

You should be seeing three options for each promotion now?

 

[kryat]

I’d argue that he is not OP because every player has access to him. While he certainly makes RV achievable very quickly, theoretically a competing player could also recruit Moksha as well to combat your spreads.

 

[Arent11]

It doesn't help towards religious victory, imo. If you're generating faith without anything to spend it on, I guess it's worth considering. The Intelligence Agency seems like the best choice, though. Overall the Gov Plaza choices aren't very well thought out, imo.

I specifically thought about Kurgans & potentially spending faith on builders, if grand masters chapel allows to faith buy civilian units.

 

[Bad Wolf]

He's not OP at all, in fact if they debuffed him at all he'd be next to useless. He's good if you want to spread your religion, but I bet you'll still end up taking Magnus too.

 

[leandrombraz]

You should be seeing three options for each promotion now?

I get 3 options:

• Medic
• Convert Barbarians
• Random option

Every single time, which mean I technically have only one option since medic and convert barbarians are completely useless.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I get 3 options:

• Medic
• Convert Barbarians
• Random option

Every single time, which mean I technically have only one option since medic and convert barbarians are completely useless.

When I was making a lot of apostles, I had a long run of crappy options like that. I wonder if it's because you hadn't used those enough previously.

 

[leandrombraz]

When I was making a lot of apostles, I had a long run of crappy options like that. I wonder if it's because you hadn't used those enough previously.

That was my theory. I tried to pick convert barbarians to see if it would give me other options but it didn't work. I was going to do that again but I found Yerevan and gave up on testing.

The last patch was supposed to fix again an Apostle bug where you run out of promotions, which is a bug they fixed in a previous patch then it came back in another patch. My guess is that it's related to that bug, they fixed it but not really.

 

[Datian]

"Convert barbarians" is not completely useless !

I found a use... once.

An enemy spy had performed a "recruit partisans" near my capital, right when I bought an apostle and sighed, "well, guess it will be a useless convert barbari... oh wait, two free infantries !"

 

[Bad Wolf]

If there are still barbarians left anywhere in the world, and they're not too far out of the way, and you know where they are, then Heathen Conversion is actually pretty good, you can get a bunch of free units out of it. Or, see post above. Otherwise it's garbage.