Is it a Exploit ? I have more than 100,000 gold with it.

[Lord Jimbob]

BTW, are we sure that you don't take a rep hit because you are effectively cancelling a gpt MA deal by killing the civ (I know it doesn't make any sense, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were true...)? Somebody (I can't recall if it was this thread on reinspection...) said that it was wise to wait until the 20 turn gpt or luxpt deal was over before eliminating the target civ. Anybody noticed this during the execution of this evil :vampire: little scam? If you do take a significant rep hit, then the check against this little gimmick is the same as that against the gpt for tech followed by war declaration gimmick, and you could only get away with this once...

EDIT: oh yeah, it was denyd in this thread:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85288&perpage=20&pagenumber=2

 

[mistat137]

I am currently playing on Emperor, C3C v1.22, and have experimented with this technique a bit.

First, even if you are giving them 1,000,000 gpt, the AI will not give you more money than your technology/map/luxury/resource is worth. If it is an old technology, they will only give you a measely (at best) 100 gpt, despite what their income is. However, if they did not have that income to begin with, they would not offer you a deal. In this aspect, it is acting like a human player would who suddenly had a lot of income, but still knew what the technology was worth.

Secondly, the AI will not buy your cities under noraml peace time conditions.

Third, as far as I can tell, this does not ruin your reputation for deal breaking, but the computer does have some funny sayings after you give them gpt for MA pacts against a dying civilization, then they end up paying you the full price for technology: "Don't try to trick me with your merchant tricks". Then they get pretty mad with you, but I think the computer is actually less likely to go to war with you because they don't want to appear as if they are trying to get out of a deal.

Fourth, the computer will fall for this trick time and time again. I have scammed 20+ civilizations 3 times each for these kinda deals and now in the modern age I find 150K gold in my coffers and I'm getting 12,000 gold per turn. In this aspect, it is an exploit.

Fifth, the big limit to this exploit is that you have to offer more money than they are willing to offer back for gpt. But if you are not producing enough gpt, you often not be able to offer it because of broken deals. For example, if you are only bringing in 200 gpt (with taxes 100%, wealth in all cities), and you wish to use this trick. You can not offer a civ more than 200 gpt for a MA or Trade embargo against a dying civ.

Sixth, I have found that if the computer is down to its last city and unable to pay you, they can still hold onto buildings and units, and the money magickly appears for you, but they will never be able to build another unit or building. I don't know why this is, but that appears to be some sort of bug in the money system.

Seventh, if another civilization is getting ready to destroy someone, you can also use this exploit, but then all civilizations you are giving money to in a pact will not actually attack that dying civ if they are getting a good deal. Smart, eh?

Lastly, I hesitiate to call it an exploit because you need 4 things to happen: 1. A dying civ. 2. Be ahead in technology of the civ you are trying to get gpt deals from. 3. Be able to produce lots of gold per turn to even use the trick. 4. Have many other civs to fall for it (being that it relies on a civ dying, it has limited potential in small games).

The evidence for it being an exploit is that the AI will fall for it multiple times, and it can stop them from all research for 20 turns if you can hurt them enough, that you can create gold from nothing, and that ridiculous quantities of gold can be created (Like bringing in 12,000 gpt in a large world game, I believe I have maid over half a million from other civilizations from selling them technologies this way)

 

[unscratchedfoot]

Good thinking to come up with this idea, but I would never use it. It's just another programming loophole that needs to be addressed in a patch. In reality, it would be too easy to see that the last city would fall and it is a raw deal, and money coming out of nowhere is fake too. And like, is it fun to win with unrealistic exploits like this or the ROP rape? Duking it out toe-to-toe is more manly (or womanly as appropriate ).

 

[Gogf]

Congrats on a great idea! However, it is sort of an exploit, IMO.

 

[Masquerouge]

I find it really amazing that even after years of ten of thousands of players playing CIV3, such great ideas can sill be discovered.
So congrats to you Reversal, and to CIV3 !

 

[binyo66]

Originally posted by reversal
Now I am playing c3c v1.15beta,stardard map with 31 civs,sid level. When you are technology advanced than a few civs,then attack a week civ ,Before you capture his last city,make all your city produce more gold,zero science and luxury invested,Try to sign MA with all civs to that week civ,pay them what they want,and MUST pay them much gpt,so most of them declare war on that one,then sell tech to them,Before the MA,they were all poor guy,But now,they have so much income from me per turn,So they would like buy tech from we.Then you destroy that week civ,The treaty of MA and others(incude you pay them much per turn) will over,and reputation not hurt.But they still pay you much for tech per turn,I'm rich,their treasury were crashed.

DO it again and agian,Now I have more than 12,0000g and from other civs +above 7000 per turn.

I think it's dirty trick,But SID AI too crazy.

There is one thing we need to consider :
Last night, I tried this technique :
Monarch, 1.29f, huge, 12 civs, pangea.
Before loan : America could pay around 75GPT for Corporation. England would pay 140GPT. I was at war with Russia (and she had only 1 city left), England alreay at war with her. Then, why not try this trick. I allied with America against Russia, and I gave him 50GPT. Sure, afterthat America could pay 112GPT for corp (and I sold it to England for 111GPT). In one turn, Zulu destroyed Russia last city (I prefer other civ destroyed the last city for rep hit issue), but Russia is still alive So, there must have been a galley with Russia Settler. Easy to find it was closed to my destroyer, and either I had to wait for couple turns and paid America for 50GPT until somebody killed the galley or I sent my destroyer. I decided I sent my destroyer and killed the galley. In one turn I got 2 rep hits
1. as the civ which destroy other civ.
2. Rep hit because I dont wait for 20 turns alliance with America.
But, I enjoy this trick over the rephit