Is it just me or does the AI rush certain wonders?

[Question]

They seem to go for specific ones and avoid others. Temple of artemis, statue of zeus, hanging gardens...while they rarely seem to build stuff like the mausoleum of halicarnuss.

The question is, how do they build them so fast? The AI builds so little building per city, and they often have lower pop as well...where are they getting the hammers to produce more military units and wonders (on prince, no less)?

 

[Yzman]

On prince the AI builds things quite slowly, you shouldn't be beat to anything that you go for. Try to develop your strategy better by reading some topics here or watching some walkthroughs. The early game is the most important and it sounds like you may be getting set up too slowly.

 

[3335d]

On prince the AI builds things quite slowly, you shouldn't be beat to anything that you go for. Try to develop your strategy better by reading some topics here or watching some walkthroughs. The early game is the most important and it sounds like you may be getting set up too slowly.

Technically the AI shouldn't have an advantage vis à vis you, as it is stated that the AI is on an equal footing, but in reality the AI plays on chieftain, so it does actually get bonuses with respect to a Prince-level player. However, the AI is so bad that you should rarely lose to it in a wonder race.

 

[chazzycat]

alhambra & forbidden palace are the hardest for me. The AI always get those two before I even have the tech.

 

[whyidie]

Depends on who is on the map. Any Civ with a desert bias will beat me to Petra. Sometimes I can pick up great wall late, but if there are some cultural or wonderspamming Civs on the map they'll prioritize it.

Great Library seems to go quickly on a consistent basis, while I can usually get Stonehenge if I prioritize it on king. Not sure how it goes on higher levels.

 

[Tachii]

From experience AI generally avoid Mausoleum/Pyramids at any levels below Deity (On Deity their production is so high they build it just for the heck of it). This is because they often beeline for civil service or iron working. Even if they do get masonry they're often going for Engineering to get Great Wall, or just a complete warmonger civ trying to get Steel while making their carpet of doom. I've seen many immortal games where GW is made before the Pyramid.

After civil service they can keep their beelines to banking, so sometimes you can see AI stealing Masonry from you. Thus Alhambra, Chichen Itza, and Forbidden Palace gets snatched quick by the same runaway tech civ (assuming s/he isn't a complete warmonger like Attila or Monty).

 

[DGDobrev]

Absolutely. What's worse, if you happen to have Egypt in your Deity game, and they happen to be the runaway civ, I would venture to say that only Babylon has a chance to snatch a few wonders from them, as only Babylon can somehow stay on par with them in the early-to-mid game. Egypt on Deity builds any available project in hardly any time, effectively beating you to it. They simply don't care which one it is. They build it cause they can. This is even more overpowered if they are somewhere in a corner where no other civ cares to go or expand, as it allows them to develop freely while building wonders and military at will.

As example: in almost every Deity game you have a decent chance at ToA, Oracle and Petra. I always go for the Oracle, as it seems to be the most neglected one - but not if Egypt's there! They will snatch any wonder, including Pisa and PT from you before you ever got there...

 

[curwen]

that and their UB make egypt a really tempting target from middle age to modern age .... if you are lucky its capital is not far from a friendly coastal CS (friendly once you donate a bit ). And if egypt is out of the way your knight/Xbow/canon will gain xp killing war chariot.... and you will swim in cash for this so nice UB

there are more than one way to own a wonder .... at deity building is the hardest way imo ...

 

[AiTenshi1]

alhambra & forbidden palace are the hardest for me. The AI always get those two before I even have the tech.

GE... simple.

... and focus on the techs, of course...

 

[Smokeybear]

Depends on who is on the map. Any Civ with a desert bias will beat me to Petra. Sometimes I can pick up great wall late, but if there are some cultural or wonderspamming Civs on the map they'll prioritize it.

Great Library seems to go quickly on a consistent basis, while I can usually get Stonehenge if I prioritize it on king. Not sure how it goes on higher levels.

It depends a lot on how many wars the other AI's get involved in, early on. If the builder civs are at peace for long periods, yer probby gonna lose some wonder races. If they get hung up in wars, I've seen games where I can get GL, Stonehenge, and Pyramids, bang-bang-bang. Another wonder that many AI civs beeline for, is Chichen Itza. If I dawdle at all in a game, I seem to always lose that one. Makes sense though, because besides the wonder, that tech also gives them a big food boost and lancers, which are the best military unit at that level.

 

[smallfish]

GE... simple.

... and focus on the techs, of course...

1) Play Immortal with Sejong as team-mate

2) Blaze through the tech tree every time Sejong completes a scientific building or RA or discovers ruin or bulbing

3) Wonderspam to hearts' content

 

[OmniPotent42]

It mainly depends on your tech path. On Immortal I usually rush to education, get the key economic techs, then rush to Industrialization, loop back to get Militaristic techs, and leapfrog my way to victory. Any wonder not on the education/industrialization path is very hard to get because of it.

However, you can snatch any wonder (at least below Diety) if you really try for it. I have got hanging gardens by teching straight to Mathematics. You can also get TofA and Statue of Zeus if you try for it.

 

[Question]

I don't beeline bronze working because i usually need somethoing like calendar or masonry to get luxuries. Then the AI snatches statue of zeus.

I'm actually tempted to go to war to snatch a capital with a few wonders, but what always happens is that they are on another continent, and by the time i get there another religion has dominated that continent with 20+ cities, so it's a pain in the ass...

My starting build order (keep in mind i use epic research speed with quick build speeds) is :

1.Scout
2.Warrior or worker (depending on starting resources)
3.Shrine
4.Worker or granary
5.Try for my first wonder, usually get beaten to it

I usually fail to get :

-Temple of artemis
-Hanging gardens
-Statue of zeus
-Collosus
-Petra
-Machuu pichu (especially the two tile mountain requirement, i rarely have a good city within 2 tiles of a mountain to build it)
-Alhambra

 

[slapshot2119]

From experience AI generally avoid Mausoleum/Pyramids at any levels below Deity (On Deity their production is so high they build it just for the heck of it). This is because they often beeline for civil service or iron working. Even if they do get masonry they're often going for Engineering to get Great Wall, or just a complete warmonger civ trying to get Steel while making their carpet of doom. I've seen many immortal games where GW is made before the Pyramid.

After civil service they can keep their beelines to banking, so sometimes you can see AI stealing Masonry from you. Thus Alhambra, Chichen Itza, and Forbidden Palace gets snatched quick by the same runaway tech civ (assuming s/he isn't a complete warmonger like Attila or Monty).

Agreed. The AI can only build wonders that it has the technology for. It almost always prioritizes civil service->chivalry->banking which makes chicken pizza, alhambra, and FP go disproportionately early in relation to how far right they are in the tech tree. Side note along those lines: I've seen quite a bit of hating in the forums regarding Ankor Wat but modest border expansion is helpful and the hidden bonus of this wonder is that the AI REALLY doesn't prioritize it: in a king-level game I finished Ankor Wat a turn after researching Radio.

An exception to the above that I noted is Pacal, who beelines Theology (which makes sense given his UA.) Elizabeth frequently builds the Great Lighthouse. Anyone notice any other civs that regularly follow different tech patterns?

Surprised to hear that someone had difficulty with the Great Library. In trying to get the most beakers from GL's free tech I figured that Guilds is the only Medieval tech with one prereq, and that prereq (currency) only has one prereq(math). So one strategy that I've tried is to beeline math(more or less), start building hanging gardens and researching currency, then when HG is almost done research writing and start building GL. When doing so, I miss Hanging Gardens much more frequently than Great Library despite building it earlier AND being an era ahead in prereq tech.

Also, someone hinted that if a civilization is at war early, it will delay how quickly they build wonders. You can be the variable in this equation. i.e. if you really want to build chicken pizza but you see a neighbor civ has entered the medieval age, you have the option of DoWing them which will shift their production from the wonder to military, especially if they haven't built a city between you and the city they plan on building the wonder in, usually capital.

 

[Halcyan2]

It depends a lot on how many wars the other AI's get involved in, early on. If the builder civs are at peace for long periods, yer probby gonna lose some wonder races. If they get hung up in wars, I've seen games where I can get GL, Stonehenge, and Pyramids, bang-bang-bang. Another wonder that many AI civs beeline for, is Chichen Itza. If I dawdle at all in a game, I seem to always lose that one. Makes sense though, because besides the wonder, that tech also gives them a big food boost and lancers, which are the best military unit at that level.

Yes, I've played Emperor level games with 8-10 opponents, where I was able to get all of the wonders because I kept careful tabs on my opponents and I made sure they were constantly warring with each other (bribing them to fight when necessary).

Once again, Leader Flavors and Wonder Flavors explain a lot. Great Lighthouse has a Naval flavor, and most vanilla leaders other than Elizabeth, Suleiman, and Oda have low Naval values. For the Pyramids, Tile Improvement is a pretty rare flavor. Most leaders have standard values (4-6), with only 5 leaders with a 7 and nothing higher than that. I'm surprised the Oracle isn't that popular but it does have lower values than, say, vanilla Stonehenge. Angkor Wat has a expansion flavor and there are a good number of civs with high expansion values, *however*, most civs that pursue expansion (e.g. Liberty) don't have much of an infrastructure to wonderspam, so that may explain it.

A few wonders (Machu Picchu, Forbidden Palace, U.N.) have very exaggerated wonder values, which explain why the AI's often prioritize them.

Yeah, Pacal does prioritize Theology. He and other AI's seem to heavily favor the Great Mosque of Djenne over the Hagia Sophia though.

I would LOVE to see the Wonder Flavors in G&K, but I don't know where to find them!

 

[clif9710]

The pyramids always seem available...as if the AI reserves it for me. I can get it early, get it late, but it always seems to be there for me no matter what civ I play or who is against me. I play at king level. It can be nice when playing a cultural game with only one or two cities: I make one worker, get two extra workers with the pyramids and I'm set for labor.

 

[greetswithfire]

having a weird deity game with germany right now...was able to grab petra in a very small desert city (took over 40 turns when all was said and done)...stonehenge wasnt prioritized to i got that late aswell...somehow even got notre dame but i used a great engineer...things are going pretty well actually but now england has DOWed me and is shelling my cities hard with ships of the line

but ya usually in my games babylon or persia always end up with hanging gardens..and great library is essentially impossible unless you luck out and get writing ruin

 

[whyidie]

After civil service they can keep their beelines to banking, so sometimes you can see AI stealing Masonry from you. Thus Alhambra, Chichen Itza, and Forbidden Palace gets snatched quick by the same runaway tech civ (assuming s/he isn't a complete warmonger like Attila or Monty).

Ack. That explains a lot. I was just starting to put that trend together, but hadn't quite figured out what the cause was.

It depends a lot on how many wars the other AI's get involved in, early on. If the builder civs are at peace for long periods, yer probby gonna lose some wonder races. If they get hung up in wars, I've seen games where I can get GL, Stonehenge, and Pyramids, bang-bang-bang. Another wonder that many AI civs beeline for, is Chichen Itza. If I dawdle at all in a game, I seem to always lose that one. Makes sense though, because besides the wonder, that tech also gives them a big food boost and lancers, which are the best military unit at that level.

In my last game was the first time I really saw this in effect. I had a map with Polynesia, Hawaii, and Inca. I gave up on the wonder race early until I noticed things weren't getting built. Wasn't until later in the game I realized why...they spawned next to Greece and Germany, while I had a surprisingly docile Mongolia nearby.

 

[whyidie]

Yes, I've played Emperor level games with 8-10 opponents, where I was able to get all of the wonders because I kept careful tabs on my opponents and I made sure they were constantly warring with each other (bribing them to fight when necessary).

Once again, Leader Flavors and Wonder Flavors explain a lot. Great Lighthouse has a Naval flavor, and most vanilla leaders other than Elizabeth, Suleiman, and Oda have low Naval values. For the Pyramids, Tile Improvement is a pretty rare flavor. Most leaders have standard values (4-6), with only 5 leaders with a 7 and nothing higher than that. I'm surprised the Oracle isn't that popular but it does have lower values than, say, vanilla Stonehenge. Angkor Wat has a expansion flavor and there are a good number of civs with high expansion values, *however*, most civs that pursue expansion (e.g. Liberty) don't have much of an infrastructure to wonderspam, so that may explain it.

A few wonders (Machu Picchu, Forbidden Palace, U.N.) have very exaggerated wonder values, which explain why the AI's often prioritize them.

Yeah, Pacal does prioritize Theology. He and other AI's seem to heavily favor the Great Mosque of Djenne over the Hagia Sophia though.

I would LOVE to see the Wonder Flavors in G&K, but I don't know where to find them!

So it is Civ dependent, makes sense.