[BTS] Is it possible to come back during midgame?

reflec

Chieftain
Joined
May 17, 2020
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Like between turns 200-300ish, how do you catch up? I finished a monarch game where I fell behind during this time frame and I tried several different things to catch up like trying to conquer some cities, trading techs constantly, building key wonders, but it seemed like no matter what I tried, I was always behind a sizable amount in terms of tech and production, and often an ai would finish a wonder I was going for before I could, despite me b-lining straight for it.

So what are my options here?
What techs should I be aiming for?
What wonders should I be aiming for?



Attaching 2 saves of the game at turns 187 and 303.

Thanks
 

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  • bum AD-1866 im gonna lose the internet.CivBeyondSwordSave
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  • bum AD-1270 still behnd.CivBeyondSwordSave
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I had good laugh, lol...

For starters 1270AD is not really midgame, it depends on how you see things but ~500AD is maybe middle of midgame.

So, you pay ~50 gold for unit maintenance (mostly archers and axes, in 1270AD let's not forget that). And will have another ~10 units produced in less than 5 turns. Oh, and ad inflation modifier on that. ~60 at modest 35 hammers (less for archers more for maces)... is a sizeable tech if you built research instead... and yeah 50 gold per turn on top...

There are lot of wrong things in that save (mids and representation, plainfarms etc), but building and paying for useless army is a single major roadblock on path towards any success.
 
In some games, you can come back...

But paying for a big army that you're not using is a waste of both gold and hammers. 50 Axes and Archers could be up to 1500 hammers which if you built wealth would put you considerably ahead in research not to mention paying maintenance for all those units is crippling your economy. Snowbird basically said it pretty well. Use diplomacy and not a scary power graph to ensure safety.
 
Some quick observations from the 1270ad save...

You're not trading any resources at all. You should be trading for happiness resources or :gold:.

I'd be considering a dogpile of your German neighbour. They're losing their war with the Ottomans and are a different religion to everyone else. Cologne has just a longbow and an axe and is ripe for you to take. You could even bribe in other countries (with Education/Divine Right) to join the war for the positive diplomacy effect. For those that you can't bribe in to the war, you could trade for other techs and still keep your monopoly on gunpowder.

I'd prefer a larger proportion of siege units. I echo what others have said about the number of units. If you have that many, do something with them.
You can part build units and wait to complete them until you want them, then you don't waste money on maintenance. Just watch out for hammer decay.

How did you choose your civics?
If you are on a war footing, being in vassalage and/or theocracy would produce units with more xp.
You're in slavery, but I don't think you are whipping effectively.
Being in universal suffrage is probably not great as you've only got 4 towns; are you using it to rush buy?
You're in barbarism when better civics are available.

You can team up workers.

You're working forests in several cities which is pretty bad.

You've got no terrace (granary) in Ollaytaytambo or Vilcas. Granaries are super-important in nearly all cities.

Don't build something (whether a building, wonder or unit) without a rough idea of how it will fit into your plan and how long it will take to pay off.

What Techs you choose and what Wonders you aim for should depend on your plan.
It's probably too late for a crack at the Liberalism race as Lincoln might win it, but you could still have a go by trading for Philosophy.
If your plan is to go for Cuirassiers (you've got Military Tradition cued up on your tech path) then devote your empire to getting there as fast as you can, stop building needless things, and then rush build a stack of them and go on a conquering spree.


edit: I played 10 turns to try and understand more where you are. I broke my own rules by not bothering to have a clear plan. :shifty:
  • Changed civics to representation and vassalge.
  • Whipped out some trebuchets to attack Germany, although they only got to the front line by the time I was capturing their third city.
  • Didn't get much help from other civs with attacking Germany: the Ottomans made peace straight away although the Mongolians did take Gaul.
  • Libbed chemistry and only 3 turns away from Steel for Cannons.
  • :science: per turn improved from ~250 to >300 even with all the whipping, although a lot has come from trading techs too.
From looking at your other save, it looks like you don't understand the different civics. You are still in decentralization! From the graphs, you're falling behind most when your opponents are adopting state property.


and to actually answer your question :)... in terms of catching up from a military disadvantage, nukes are the great equaliser. To catch up a tech disadvantage, trade prudently, steal techs with espionage (although you've got espionage disabled in settings) and maybe beeline the internet earlier (if you think it's crucial, push for every :science: and :hammers:)... or, go for a victory type that doesn't need a tech advantage.
 

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  • bum AD-1370.CivBeyondSwordSave
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On Monarch? For sure. When in doubt, build a ton of siege units and go kill somebody. It's easy to lose focus on what you should be doing, if you don't have a clear goal.
 
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