Is Liberty 6 vs. Tradition 4 a push? 10 points of comparison

My tendency of late is to grab the free settler from Liberty, maybe the worker as well, then grab the free culture buildings of Tradition (hopefully Ampitheatres by that stage) and the two capital bonuses.

From there, I claim as much quality land as I can as quickly as I can, while my starter bloc of cities sustains me both economically and militarily. Not sure how it'd work on Immortal/Deity, but it's been getting the job done quite well on Emperor.
 
I have been using the following approach, but you guys have made me wonder if I should just skip liberty altogether.

I first build the monument for the culture and when the first policy is available I Adopt tradition for the culture +3. This gives my 6 culture per turn.

2nd I adopt Liberty for one more culture per turn and quickly can go down the left side for the free settler and then produce one or two more at 50% less cost. From there I finish tradition.

This gives me a quick path to the 3 settlers and I can still have a wonder or two. I am able to avoid spending 20 turns to produce settlers early this way. I almost always go for 4 tall cities and as many puppets as I can handle for happiness! I can get science or cultural victories this way!
 
Feel free to experiment for yourself, but prior analysis has been done showing that skipping the Tradition opener yields a faster finish to Liberty (the 3 culture per turn doesn't outweigh the culture cost of going from 6 to 7 policies). Of course, you get more from the Traditoin finisher than just 3 culture -- the border expansion benefit can be quite substantial (I'm always a bit disappointed by how slowly my pure-Liberty city borders grow as compared to Tradition).
 
CPT is obvious unless you play at easier difficulties where you just stockpile wonders in your capital. In that scenario, taller tends to win as the "bonus" CPT outweights the gain of new cities. This was discussed in a different thread.
Even CpT isn't that obvious for me.
Trad can really kickstart your culture (+3 for capital, legalism) meaning more CpT early game. This can be good or bad depending on how you plan to play. Obviously, if you plan to open and fill Rationalism as soon as possible, you don't want too many SP before renaissance, but if you are playing a culture game with Piety, more SPs early allows to open peity earlier for faster temples, stronger religion and more GP to plant those sacred sites that will soon give you +3GpT&CpT.

As for wonders, with a nice starting location (marble and enough hills) and focused capital, even playing on Immortal, you can stockpile lots of them with the help of Aristocracy and religion (tested in OCC, so it's obviously a very strong Wonder focus, but still in normal games you might be able to grab a number). Some wonders are easier to get as they are rarely focused by the AI. Temple of Artemis and Mauselum of Halicarnassos (if you have the required DLC) are nice wonders relatively easy to grab. First gives you a nice growth boost, second one can give you a nice GpT boost if you have enough stone/marble. Terracota Army is rarely picked early and gives you +6CpT. Machu Picchu and Railroad era castle (forgot the name) because of mountain requirement are easier to get if your capital or anohter high prod city is close to a mountain. AI will never consider mountains within 2 tiles an incentive to settle, so cities close to mountains will often be crappy later cities.

I really think there is no clear winner. It depends on a lot of factors, most were already heavily discussed, but probably we still overlook some of them :crazyeye:
 
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