Is regime change possible in Iran?

Ecofarm said:
Sorry, WORLD DEMOCRACY NOW.

It's our only chance to get rid of poverty, terrorism and the other ills of this world.

You can go on addressing symptoms for the rest of your life, I don't care. I address the source of the problem.

I think anyone who refuses to see the need to bring freedom to those suffering under tyranny is just being selfish.
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to qoute gandh(twice):1)What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?
2)The spirit of democracy cannot be imposed from without. It has to come from within.
 
I respectfully disagree.

And I'll quote Peter Tosh and Bob Marley (well, not him originally) (sig).
 
Why are we worrying about regime change in Iran? We can't initiate such change without starting a full-blown war.
 
Ecofarm said:
Ask S. Korea. Ask Iraq (the Kurds and Swamp Arabs in particular).

Anyway, I am not proposing old US foreign policy, where our regime changes were meant to destabilize more than to reconstruct. I am proposing a new foreign policy, like the one we see in Iraq, where stability and democracy is the goal - not regional instability.
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Ask the Kurds? Wow, you’re right – it really is a good idea to jump in steel-shod-boots first, kicking azz and taking names.

On the other-hand, the Kurds are still fighting Iraqis and Turks and trying to hang in – who stopped Turkey rolling into Iraq to kill them some Kurds?

Anyway, I don't agree that busting-balls is all that great in the long run - I think American history has shown that while often well intentioned, it was at best of questionable worth, and, worst, ehm much worse.

I can see some real good that has resulted from things going on in Iraq - I know a couple guys from New Zealand who went over with our military engineers, rebuilding, etc.

My main thing is wanting to draw attention to the wider picture - Saddam was put there by the US intervention for instance - generally speaking, I'd be suggestion the USA pull things back a bit - stop trying to be in control.

Let the locals work themselves out - a helping hand, not mailed fist sort of thing.

Otherwise we're just pushing sh-t uphill - trying to get the locals to do what we think they should.
 
Ecofarm said:
Sorry, WORLD DEMOCRACY NOW.

It's our only chance to get rid of poverty, terrorism and the other ills of this world.

You can go on addressing symptoms for the rest of your life, I don't care. I address the source of the problem.

I think anyone who refuses to see the need to bring freedom to those suffering under tyranny is just being selfish.
Click to expand...

Despite how you interpret the constitution, it still states Americans have these rights, not the world. Yes it is being selfish, and it is our right to do so, I'm only concerned about my family and my countrymen, the rest of the world is just too irational and uncivilized to be worth our time. Democracy experiments in Africa and eleswhere have more often than not ended up in disaster and genocide, not worth wasting American lives over.
 
Mercenary82 said:
Yes its completley wrong you moron. Muslims stole the lands from Jews originally, they did not originate there. The Jews were rightfully taking back their homeland, just like any other people would do had their homeland been conquered. Muslims failed at using conventional weapons to defeat Israel even with over 20-1 advantages so now they want to use nukes to commit genocide.
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Nice one.

I'm having some fun posting - debating - make a cheeky crack about greedy bastards and you come back like that?

I didn't even say anything mean about you :p

Grow up.
 
Mercenary82 said:
Despite how you interpret the constitution, it still states Americans have these rights, not the world.
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Actually, it states "all men".
Yes it is being selfish, and it is our right to do so, I'm only concerned about my family and my countrymen,
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At least you are honest about it. You don't hide behind some "they can overthrow genocidal dictators by themselves" BS.
the rest of the world is just too irational and uncivilized to be worth our time.
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:nono:
Democracy experiments in Africa and eleswhere have more often than not ended up in disaster and genocide, not worth wasting American lives over.
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What democracy experiments?! When the colonials pulled out, they left Africa to fend for itself. Thus far, only Kenya has managed significant progression.
 
Mercenary82 said:
That wasn't rude?
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:p sorry it wasn't too clear - I was being high-spirited and when I wrote that I was thinking of greedy-bastards saying 'suck my gold plated dik' - pretty purile sense of humour - but I was laughing.

I didn't mean that it should be directed at you :(
 
Ecofarm said:
Actually, it states "all men".

At least you are honest about it. You don't hide behind some "they can overthrow genocidal dictators by themselves" BS.

:nono:

What democracy experiments?! When the colonials pulled out, they left Africa to fend for itself. Thus far, only Kenya has managed significant progression.
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Well thats the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution. The Preamble to the Constitution starts with "We the People of the United States" and the bill of rights has numerous references to "United States Citizens" so that tells me our founders had no intention of trying to impose these rights on the world.
 
hossam said:
no thats the declaration of independence.
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Sure, make me look stupid. I bet it says 'all men' in the constitution somewhere too.

Anyway, I believe that world freedom is the only path to lasting peace.
 
Ecofarm said:
Sure, make me look stupid. I bet it says 'all men' in the constitution somewhere too.

Anyway, I believe that world freedom is the only path to lasting peace.
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lol, i dint mean to make you look stupid;), we all make mistakes.
 
Ecofarm said:
Yes it is. No politician can even enter a race without approval from the Mullahs. Gays are put to death. Speaking your mind gets you killed. Women are treated like animals.

There are no human rights. There are no civil rights. There are no open political races. That's totalitarian.
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Open a political science dictionary and look it up. Iran is not totalitarian.

It is, in the worst case, an oppressive mix of authoritarian regime flavoured with theocratic principles.

Women are treated better than in Saudi Arabia or contemporary Iraq (they serve in the police and sit in the parliament), there are elections (though they're not free), there is more than one political entity which can take part in these elections (unlike in real totalitarian regimes), there are civil rights, just a very weird ones, there is no all-pervasive ideology like communism or national socialism dictating everything. Islam is heavily used to justify the regime, but it's still too far from real totalitarian ideology.

North Korea is totalitarian and it's the last real totalitarian state on the planet.
 
I agree. Its not totalitarian, there have been SFA totalitarian states in history, Iran is not one of them
 
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