Is the army really useful at all?

[cracker]

Yes, units in an army can be promoted to higher experience levels

BUT remember,

units in an army cannot generate great leaders once they reach elite status and continue winning battles.

There is recently documented hidden factor that prevents elite units from ever producing a second great leader after they get their first GL. So those units make great candidates to add into an army where they cannot produce a GL for two different reasons and where you are unlikely to waste a great leader generation opportunity by using the wrong elite unit.

We fully anticipate that Firaxis will add a feature that puts a different shaped "doohickey" at the top of the health bar for elites that have already generated a GL and/or add some marker like an asterisk that will show up in the unitlisting that appears in the right click selection menu. Until that point in time you have to develop strategies for keeping the "spent" elite unites separated from the "virgin" elite units.

 

[Sanaz]

Originally posted by sadu
OK, when I build an army, I like to maximise HP by only stacking elite units into the army, which is a bit of a waste. Are units able to upgrade from vet to elite once they are in an army, so your army can go from 12HP to 15HP?

Definitely. But they can never become a Great Leader after Elite - the only benefit is the increased hit points.

 

[Hamlet]

I find armies to be useful, personally.

 

[Andre]

C'mon.....Aren't armies solely and basically just stacked units?

 

[SCPete]

Originally posted by Andre
C'mon.....Aren't armies solely and basically just stacked units?

Yeah stacked units that share hit and movement points

 

[royfurr]

A couple of thoughts that I haven't seen mentioned, maybe 'cause they are bad ideas ... maybe not??

First- I am about to test this one- I'm loading up an army with 3 cav elites that have been used for GL generatiion (well two have anyway). They are going to roam the enemy heart land pillaginng- unless they can't pillage?? Did someone say an army couldn't pillage? THAT would be totally stupid, an ARMY that can't "... blow up women and kids houses and villages, slaughter the pigs and stuff like that ..." (Maybe they were once sitting on the Group W bench, eh? Or they were litterbugs!).

Second- If the enemy has an Army, either as a defender of some important city or whatever, OR threatening YOUR important city or whatever, another Army is probably the best way to take it out or to defend against it .... of the opposite type. Lots of bombardment units would be an exception to this, but if the Germans have a 3-Panzer army bearing down on my capitol, I hope I have a 3 or 4 Infantry or Mech Inf. Army defending it, or my own 3 Tank Army to attack the enemy Army. So the point is, an Army to counter an Army. Its like the best defense against a tank is another tank, not just an anti-tank gun. (Yea Yea I know, attack choppers with TOW or Warthogs ... but those haven't been available for most of the history of armor.)

This is in addition to the basic use of Army's- to get Heroic Epic to a better chance to get leaders.

Kinda clever, Random Passerby's idea, 2 unit Army's ...

 

[CivHobo]

Armies are extremely useful, esp at modern era.

I tend to have a mixture of armies and singular modern armour (stack of elites in one pile and elites that have generated 1 GL and veterans)

I use my artellery, cruise missiles, ships and bombers first to reduce the health of infantry to 1hp and city pop then use single modern armour (elite first) to take them out, cities with full health or 1+hp I use armies.

I prefer a quick war and ahevb a massive army to deal a nasty blow first, and enemy civ with around 50 cities would fall in under 5-10 turns, good for my democracy.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Armies rule! (used correctly, that is....)

1) there's nothing like an army of three or four top-notch defenders to secure a beachhead or stack of bombard units.

2) there's nothing like an army of three or four top-notch defenders to keep that recently taken enemy city.

3) there's nothing like an army of three top-notch attackers to kill that first, top-motch defender without having to bother with slow bombardment units.

4) there's nothing liek Heroic Epic to speed up leader generation.

5) there's nothin like 1 army of defenders per enemy town when you invade another continent - so GET MILITARY ACADEMY!!!!!!


Armies are usefull, but they aren't a newly placed FP in perfect location, they aren't THE wonder you really need, so the rule should be:

If the war is almost over, or your situation REALLY requires the FP or wonder NOW, go for it.
Otherwise, turn your first leader into an army. it is worth it!!!


Just look at our succession game (DS3) - we used leaders for Temples because we could build armies to hearts content - then we used them to establish beachheads successfully and gain two more luxuries!

 

[dreadknought]

well my armies are ok because I allow up to 6 units more like a real army but the computer armies can be tough to deal with. I also give a bonus hit point to elites in editor so this can help to.

 

[TheNiceOne]

I had one of three cavalry in an army upgrade from veteran to elite in my previous game, so units do battle harden even when inside an army.

 

[Creepster]

ARMIES are awesome!!! but they have to be balanced with the game. I almost never use my first leader for an Army. I typically need them for the FP or another wonder depending upon the level and end goal I am playing for.

There is nothing like an army of tanks. When I get to Calvary then I start to think about making armies. You can use the leader up and not be penalized. I like to have an empty Army or two for when I discover tanks. This allows me to quickly load them and go on the offensive. It is also nice to have a Army of infantry men to protect a large group of Artillary. The AI will never attack an Infantry Army unless it is severly weakened. In several games with my Infantry/artillary stack and two Tank Armies with some supporting personell, I am able to slowlyt continuously roll over the enemy. On average they loose 1 to 2 cities per turn.

In general though you need to balance the number of leaders you get with what wonders you really need and want. If you are playing a game with a lot of war (domination or conquest goal) then you should want the armies for the battle. Remember if you are attacking with the three units that the army represents you will loose some of them. The losses with an Army are considerably reduced. If you have lower losses then the production in your cities for improvemenst goes up considerably.

War is expensive, Armies make it less expensive in the long run.

 

[planetfall]

Just starting to use armies. I did not use them before because they seemed restrictive. In last game had 15 and it sure made campaigns fast. Not very many civs can last long against more than 5+ armies of tanks and 1 infantry army to hold the fort! I had three armies of leaders only, waiting for units to join and war was over. boo-hoo.

What I have learned about armies:
1. Firaxis default is armies can't pillage. Dumb, dumb, dumb. If regular units can pillage, 3 regular units should also pillage. Yeh, editor.
2. It is very hard to give up that first leader to an army instead of a wonder, but it does pay off.
3. After first army, need to beeline for mil acad.
4. Build academy in high production city and you can crank out an army every 4-5 turns.
5. Armies cannot be air-lifted. Even an army of just a leader can't be air-lifted. This does not make sense!! Airlift restriction should be based on size of units and not on unit type.
6. Armies work best when you have transports available.
7. Armies of tanks are great.
8. Armies are key for quick capture of initial capital. Making the AI move palace is the fast action you can take to reduce city flipping.
9. Because you have armies, AI will focus on other units first and allow you to advance.
10. Armies look cool with their funny flags and posturing leaders.
11. If you have a strong base on another continent and transport problems, you can transport only the leader and assemble the army on the other side of the pond.
12. Because you have armies, the AI will tend to direct more of its production to military instead of improvement.
13. Armies allow heroic epic and increase odds of leaders appearing
14. Units in armies can improve status to elite.

Major drawbacks
1. not as flexible as stack of individual units.
2. can't retire an old unit in an army and upgrade to a more modern unit.
3. can't let army turn red and lose 1 or 2 units but keep army intact.
4. an army of 4 tanks has 4 powerful attacks instead of 12 attacks if individual units.

War may be expensive, but it is much much more expensive to lose improved cities.

War without armies is more micromananging of campaign. War with armies is a bulldozing event.

 

[God]

Armies are pretty much useless other than for few things.

I like to use them as Mech Infantry armies and put them on a lone city on another continent. Swordsmen armies are pretty good too.

The truly only reason for me to build an army ASAP is for the Herioc Epic. After first army, I use the rest of the leaders for wonders. Other armies are from Military Academy.

 

[Evincar]

I'm going to be brief...
Whoever says armies are useless has never faced an elite Mech Infantry fortified in a Metropolis. Modern Armor Armies are the ultimate way to eliminate them. There's virtually nothing that can stop that 16 HP unit. What? using four MA instead of the army?? It's a stupid idea IMO: you are very likely to lose all 4 MA and still not destroy any MI, because, when the elite is down to 2 HP...ups, there's a regular, that kills your next armor, gets promoted to vet...and in the end, the enemy is posibly stronger after your attack. Armies solve that.

And what about defensive armies?? put your 4 MI army in that key point, build a fortress and it's yours for a loooooooooong time, since the AI will need million of armor to destry it.

 

[etj4Eagle]

On armies being useless, I think some of this sediment is a result of the idea of using your second and subsequent leaders for making armies. In that case, they are yes often useless. However, after using a leader to produce your first army and winning a battle to get the Heroic epic and the Military Academy as others have pointed out is a very good idea.

And then those subsequent armies built by cities when used correctly are definetly not useless. Of course using them correctly is very important. One very good use is as a super defender for a border city that is about to be seiged. The extra hit points means that you are more likely to take out the attackers. And of course once you start facing defending armies, attacking armies are a good idea to take them out.

 

[Zachriel]

Is the army really useful at all?

 

[philippe]

zachriel i would not dare to attack that!
cool but hey its from GOTM8
so we can all have a big army like that!
well i had in my game
not that much.....you rock man

 

[Chieftess]

Originally posted by Zachriel

Umm... Remind me not to play against you in MP!

 

[God]

Originally posted by Zachriel

No prob. 3 nukes will do the job.

 

[Chieftess]

How would an army of defenders be? (i.e., an army of 4 mech infs.?)