Is there a game like this?

[Bast]

I've been playing games for a few years but not too many. My favourites and the only ones I really play are: Civilization series (of course!), Age of Empires series and Europa Universalis. That's about it. I love all three in their own ways but none of them have satisfied me entirely.

This would be my dream game. What I like is history and I like political intrigue. But I also like role playing.

What I want to do is run a real world historical country like a king or queen in a civilization but to live their life like in the Sims. So not just existing as a figure but to live their life as a real life.

For instance, to experience growing up, learning how to rule, engaging in diplomacy with other countries and falling in love and marriage etc... Basically to write a historical figure (albeit a political figure's) history. So I could become the greatest king/queen in the country's history or I could be beheaded by my own people or my country could lose a war and be annexed by another country completely.

That would be my ideal game. It's probably asking for a lot. But any game like that out there?

 

[Maniacal]

You might want to start learning how to make your own game, AFAIK that doesn't exist.

Or, at least not the growing up part.

 

[Kan' Sharuminar]

Closest I can think of is Crusader Kings, though that more focuses on creating a dynasty, rather than a single historical figure.

 

[Bast]

Closest I can think of is Crusader Kings, though that more focuses on creating a dynasty, rather than a single historical figure.

Hmm... you have no idea how useful that page is. I'll check it out.

Other poster, yeah I'll probably have to start creating my own game. LOL! I guess what I'm looking for is a mix of The Sims and EU/Civ. Rather than concentrating on the macroscopic elements to concentrate on the microscopic elements to see how you as a person can influence history. This of course should not be limited to rulers. But other influential court figures.

 

[Avelon]

Hmm! Such a game would sell quite well, I imagine. If executed well, I know I'd sure endorse it.

Contrary to your second post, Bast, I would say that it would just plain be too tedious to code in playability for every prominent court figure, but a compromise could be made by making the game moddable without hacking (like the Elder Scrolls-style plugins).

Otherwise, the only foreseeable problems are:
- First and foremost, A.I. If you go strictly by-the-book history, then that's okay, I guess. X declares war on Y for Z reason in year A. So on and so forth. But that limits the power of you, the player, to influence history. As demonstrated by the games you've listed off, in a game such as what you're describing, the A.I. tends to be dumb and requires unfair advantages to be harder. Ideally, there would be a difficulty level that only influences the A.I.'s foreign policy, general efficiency in decision making, and intuitiveness. (i.e. it sees you building a large army and thus sees you as a threat)
- Time flow. Would it occur in a day-by-day basis? That would be nice, but going through childhood would be tedious and a bit boring if time flowed too slowly, and in adulthood time flowing too quickly ruins the immersion and the strategy element, as well as reducing game time (which in some ways is good, but for a simulation/strategy game like what you're suggesting, usually you WANT the game to last).
- Presentation. One would have to put very careful thought into how to present this game. Different camera modes, for instance, would be awesome - see through the eyes of the sovreign you play as, follow over his shoulder, see from above, have a God's-eye view of your whole territory (with a zoom feature of course), etc. Then you have to handle control of the characters. The NPCs are naturally automated, but what about the ruler? SIMS-style automation, with no *direct* control? Automation plus the ability to manually control (like Dungeon Keeper creatures)? Fully manual control?
Not only that, but you're suggesting several different modes of play combined into one...how to transit between them? How do your choices in, say, your ruler's childhood education affect your day-to-day movement? Do you automatically go to your classes or do you have to choose to go to them, are there alternatives to doing your duties, etc.

There should also be a choice as to what kind of ruler you want to be. Do you want to be the benevolent father-figure who hears the opinions, concerns, and problems of his peasants? Do you want to be the sort of king who goes out to the village and gives speeches? Or goes to the village to slaughter a man to make an example? Or the twisted sort of ruler who indulges himself with the village women in the town square? etc. Is all of THAT manual or automatic?

But...it's just as fun in my opinion to sit and kick ideas like those around as it is to actually watch the game come together. If you didn't guess already, I'm an amateur game designer. =P I really like this idea! Don't be put off by the things I've listed; they aren't in any way to say it's not a good idea because I sure think it is. =)

Another idea would be throwing in 'mode' options. Historical, influential (history is directly influenced by YOUR decisions...this is where the A.I. will suffer, methinks), etc. One that I would love to see is 'fantasy', where you have sorcerers and the like at your disposal. =D Be a Sorcerer-King, in fact!

 

[Maniacal]

Excellent post Avelon! My thoughts on the game
Diplomacy - Keeping the other nations off your back, mariages, trade, keeping your nobles in line, the economy, plagues, famine, other disasters, wars, having to decide if you want to send help or not. I think it would be best to be a semi-historical setting or a completely made up one. I don't know about first person, perhaps "mini-games" where your charactor has to make a charactor and/or life changing decision could be in 1st/3rd person view. Eg. Should he go with his buddies and raid the kitchen as a child? etc.

EDIT: I remembered reading this before: http://www.gameboomers.com/reviews/Vv/Versailles2byjenny100.htm

 

[Bast]

Hmm! Such a game would sell quite well, I imagine. If executed well, I know I'd sure endorse it.

Contrary to your second post, Bast, I would say that it would just plain be too tedious to code in playability for every prominent court figure, but a compromise could be made by making the game moddable without hacking (like the Elder Scrolls-style plugins).

Otherwise, the only foreseeable problems are:
- First and foremost, A.I. If you go strictly by-the-book history, then that's okay, I guess. X declares war on Y for Z reason in year A. So on and so forth. But that limits the power of you, the player, to influence history. As demonstrated by the games you've listed off, in a game such as what you're describing, the A.I. tends to be dumb and requires unfair advantages to be harder. Ideally, there would be a difficulty level that only influences the A.I.'s foreign policy, general efficiency in decision making, and intuitiveness. (i.e. it sees you building a large army and thus sees you as a threat)
- Time flow. Would it occur in a day-by-day basis? That would be nice, but going through childhood would be tedious and a bit boring if time flowed too slowly, and in adulthood time flowing too quickly ruins the immersion and the strategy element, as well as reducing game time (which in some ways is good, but for a simulation/strategy game like what you're suggesting, usually you WANT the game to last).
- Presentation. One would have to put very careful thought into how to present this game. Different camera modes, for instance, would be awesome - see through the eyes of the sovreign you play as, follow over his shoulder, see from above, have a God's-eye view of your whole territory (with a zoom feature of course), etc. Then you have to handle control of the characters. The NPCs are naturally automated, but what about the ruler? SIMS-style automation, with no *direct* control? Automation plus the ability to manually control (like Dungeon Keeper creatures)? Fully manual control?
Not only that, but you're suggesting several different modes of play combined into one...how to transit between them? How do your choices in, say, your ruler's childhood education affect your day-to-day movement? Do you automatically go to your classes or do you have to choose to go to them, are there alternatives to doing your duties, etc.

There should also be a choice as to what kind of ruler you want to be. Do you want to be the benevolent father-figure who hears the opinions, concerns, and problems of his peasants? Do you want to be the sort of king who goes out to the village and gives speeches? Or goes to the village to slaughter a man to make an example? Or the twisted sort of ruler who indulges himself with the village women in the town square? etc. Is all of THAT manual or automatic?

But...it's just as fun in my opinion to sit and kick ideas like those around as it is to actually watch the game come together. If you didn't guess already, I'm an amateur game designer. =P I really like this idea! Don't be put off by the things I've listed; they aren't in any way to say it's not a good idea because I sure think it is. =)

Another idea would be throwing in 'mode' options. Historical, influential (history is directly influenced by YOUR decisions...this is where the A.I. will suffer, methinks), etc. One that I would love to see is 'fantasy', where you have sorcerers and the like at your disposal. =D Be a Sorcerer-King, in fact!

Thanks for your post. You make some excellent points.

A few things I want to clarify.

Firstly: ideally I want a game that follows historical events but not by the book. So for instance, French revolution-like revolutions to happen but it could happen anywhere. For instance, what if the revolution happened in Britain instead of France. Or what if the Seven Years' war didn't happen. And instead another war happened. Also including environmental and religious factors like reformation and famines etc... So based on historical incidences but not necessarily in the years or places in which they actually happened.

Secondly: with regards to time and play I think Europa Universalis would be a good guide here. It's real-time play but you can speed up or slow down the play. So obviously you won't be spending day-by-day basis. A day may become a few seconds?

And talking about EU look at this screenshot for EUIII. Political alliances through Royal Marriage? That's what I'm talking about.

 

[Maniacal]

Ewwww. I don't like those 3D models of the units, it looks like one from AOM increased in size, ick.

But back on topic: Run away!

But she has... great tracks of... land....

 

[Truronian]

Hmm... Maybe try the Romance of the Three Kingdom series. VIII sounds similar to what your after (missing some of your requests though).

 

[Rannos]

Sounds like a very interesting idea. If it were presented well enough (and if it were advertised enough for me to notice,) I'd certainly buy what you described.

 

[cegman]

Europa 1400: the guild is a very basic version of what you are looking for. I had the game for a while then lost it will be getting a new copy for 15 dollars in the mail soon. check it out at gamestop.com

 

[Maniacal]

I think it would be possible to make, as a text based game, with minor graphcs. Though that would be an aeful lot of text needed to make the game as different each time.

 

[Kan' Sharuminar]

Ewwww. I don't like those 3D models of the units, it looks like one from AOM increased in size, ick

I'm not so keen on any of those 3D views so far. It looks like a step back from EU2

 

[Maniacal]

I'm not so keen on any of those 3D views so far. It looks like a step back from EU2

Hopefully modders can fix it up.

 

[Till]

Europa 1400: the guild is a very basic version of what you are looking for. I had the game for a while then lost it will be getting a new copy for 15 dollars in the mail soon. check it out at gamestop.com

Good suggestion.
It is quite addictive, though, so be warned!

Regarding the shot i agree with Kan. EU2 actually looks a lot better. I wish we would get a break from 3d graphics, were they are not needed! They usually require more resources and are way harder to mod.
If they don't even provide eye candy, why bother?

 

[Maniacal]

Europa 1400: the guild

What is this game like?

 

[Till]

You start as a nobody in a German city of your choosing. The quest is to get rich an influential. For that mean, you need to get a job. The choices range from thief to preacher.
Since you can live only so long, you need to marry a suitable woman (read: a rich one ) and produce some children, who will take over once you are pushing daisies.

Over the time you can learn different professions and create a economic imperium. Beside that, there is the political and religious aspect. You can apply for various jobs, worldly or spiritual. To get them, you need to bribe, blackmail or simply abduct your rivals.

 

[Maniacal]

*drool* Abduction... I'm sold. If I can find a copy. For cheap.

 

[Till]

I regulary see it on sale for 1€ here. Make sure you get the gold edition, which includes the expansion pack.