Is there any disadvantage to vampirism?

[Doug Piranha]

One of the things I really like about this mod is that most in-game decisions involve tradeoffs. But lately, I've been playing the Calabim, and it seems to me that it's a no-brainer to gift vampirism to any unit that qualifies, as soon as possible. Is there some down side to vampirism that I'm missing?

 

[odalrick]

No. It's an extra promotion/ability for Calabim, similar to how many unique units provide a stronger unit with no downside.

 

[readercolin]

The downside is that unless its a morai, your unit needs to be level 6 (4 if morai) before you can give it vampirism. This generally takes a while and usually ends up with lots of dead units. On the other hand, you can build a vampire (strength 5 instead of strength 6 champion), and without ever having to send it into combat give it combat 1-5 or drill 1-4 or anything else that you want. This gives them a fairly great advantage in building tier 4 units, as it can get promotions from the start (most of their teir 4's start as vampires). This is considered balanced though because most people upgrade their most experienced tier 3 units to the tier 4 units, which puts them on a somewhat even footing.

With morai, this promotes spamming units like nothing else and whichever ones get to lvl 4 then get upgraded to vampires and become your city busters. With Vampires, this promotes building a large army early, then giving them upgrades over time, rather than spamming them like the end of the world is coming.

That being said, there is no reason at all to not give a unit vampirism if it can get it. But don't think that makes the vampires super OP or anything... everyone else has some sort of counter to it, and vampires are very expensive (generally cost about 1.5x the hammers of a normal unit). The easiest way to remove them from the game is to rush them early. The easiest way to lose to them is to let them grow unhindered.

-Colin

 

[popejubal]

the biggest, nastiest thing that Vampirism gives the Calabim (IMHO) is the extra promotions on the end game units.

Vampirism on an Archmage turns the Archmage into an empire busting machine. Vampirism on an Archmage hero turns the Archmage into a single unit game ender.

 

[Darksaber1]

Ahh, vampiric Hemah, expesially back when he summoned several Fireballs at once...goood time, goood times...

 

[WarKirby]

I've been toying with doing some modding to make vampirism a bit deeper. I think they need some vulnerability to sun magic, for a start. And maybe a weakness to holy damage. I was also thinking of doing vampire ages and such...

 

[Tholal]

I had a game recently as the Illians where I conquered the Calabim. During the conquest, one of my Priests of Winter managed to capture a Vampire who I immediately used to spread the Vampire promotion to all eligible troops. I think the Vampire has since died, but I can still spread the promotion from my other infected troops. They don't get to use the Feed ability unfortunately, but the healing bonus is still nice.

After this I decided I would try my hand at playing the Calabim (which I haven't done for a while). My first 5 or 6 attempts didn't go well (though I was playing at Monarch level using the improved AI mod) and it always seemed to take too long to get my Vampire army going. But then in my latest game, I decided to research Festivals early and put markets up in my towns, which made a huge difference. I was running 100% tech for a long time, and accumulated well over 1000 gold despite having two named barbarians pop up after exploring a nearby goblin fort, who then sacked my capitol (damn... I just realized that I never rebuilt my palace!! D'oh!).

While it's nice that Moroi can gain Vampirism at level 4, I find it's rare for them to survive that long, especially if you use their Burning Blood ability. I find that I'm usually having to put down my more experienced Moroi because they always end up going Barbarian. A little annoying, but if you're prepared for it, it's not really a problem. And I do like the flavor it adds to playing the Calabim.

 

[odalrick]

I had a game recently as the Illians where I conquered the Calabim. During the conquest, one of my Priests of Winter managed to capture a Vampire who I immediately used to spread the Vampire promotion to all eligible troops. I think the Vampire has since died, but I can still spread the promotion from my other infected troops. They don't get to use the Feed ability unfortunately, but the healing bonus is still nice.

Non-Calabim vampires lost the ability to Feast quite a while ago. (Feed was changed to only allow Bloodpets ages ago.)

While it's nice that Moroi can gain Vampirism at level 4, I find it's rare for them to survive that long, especially if you use their Burning Blood ability. I find that I'm usually having to put down my more experienced Moroi because they always end up going Barbarian. A little annoying, but if you're prepared for it, it's not really a problem. And I do like the flavor it adds to playing the Calabim.

Conventional wisdom is to only use Burning Blood only with rookie troops you are about to suicide on defensive positions.

 

[Breez]

I don't think Vampirism needs a down side. It is a minor 10% boost + a small healing rate.

Personally I look at it like It is a bigger boost with various downsides that average out to the above stated gain.

 

[avalonnn]

Isn't there a key building missing? Like Markets or Elder Councils? That's a big disadvantage for the Calabim.

 

[Tholal]

Conventional wisdom is to only use Burning Blood only with rookie troops you are about to suicide on defensive positions.

I tend to use them more as shock troops. Fire up Burning Blood on all of them, send them all to attack until victory is mine, then use those that are still under my control to deal with any who go savage. Works even better once you have Vampires. Include a few Vampires and Bloodpets with the group to clean up after the initial assault and to take care of any unruly Moroi, feeding on Bloodpets when necessary and feasting on angry citizens.

They're relatively cheap to build, and a couple of decent production cities can keep providing stacks of them to send to the front lines.

If a Moroi does end up surviving to get to level 4, I'll usually promote them to a regular Vampire.